May 24, 2007

"...putting superintendents on college and university boards, which typically go to a lot of good people, but in many cases political appointments, for me was a very important thing to do. Because we're talking about the K through 16 alliance, and ultimately integrating public and higher ed." -Gov Huntsman

KEN VERDOIA - KUED 7: Governor, it's good to have you here today. As we meet on this Thursday morning, we are getting reports that later today there will be legal action initiated by an advocacy group compelling the state to move forward with the school voucher program. Rather than talking hypothetically, is legal action, in your opinion, welcome at this time to resolve the issue?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Oh, I think it's going to be part of the solution, as a matter of fact. I think we're going to see a legal action, not from one side, but ultimately from both sides. It wouldn't surprise me if one of the complainants, whether it be the school board or the UEA, basically file the suit calling for an injunction so that they didn't have to start administering the vouchers. It is the law of the land, I think that needs to be recognized and respected, and I think the attorney general has already spoken out, or at least sent a letter to that effect. But ultimately this will play out toward a vote in November, and we need to respect that, the outcome of that vote.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL 5 NEWS: At this point do you think it would be helpful, as some are requesting that you call a special session to repeal house bill 174 to clear the matter up?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, bills can't be repealed, just as a statement of fact. I think there are probably two complications, there. One is the political will would have to be there if you called a special session. Two, you'd have to have the mechanics, legislatively and legally, such that you could actually find a remedy.
What would be better, and what you're going find over the next day or two, is a letter that will be signed by president Valentine and speaker Curtis, and me, and probably the attorney general, the language right now is just being finalized, that will essentially state that whatever the vote is in November will be respected as a vote up or down on vouchers, which I think brings the maximum amount of clarity to this whole discussion. And I think that's exactly where we should be.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL 5 NEWS: So that accomplishes the same thing essentially?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: It accomplishes the same thing. And so if you have the leaders of the legislative branch, if you have the head of the executive branch, me, essentially, and if we state in a letter to the people that come November the vote, even though 148 might be an incomplete target the way it sits today, it more or less today would be an opinion survey because 174 would live on. But if we, as leaders, then agree that the vote in November will be definitive in the sense that that will be an up or down vote on vouchers, and that if needs be action will be taken in the next legislative session to change the code accordingly, then I think that's probably what the people of the state need to hear, and ought to hear. And that will likely be represented in a letter that will be sent out shortly.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Does that mean that parents shouldn't expect to receive vouchers for this fall?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, it means that the legal process will play out more immediately to determine if vouchers will be administered over the summer months in the lead up to November. As of right now, it is the law of the land, and absent lawsuits, which I fully expect we'll see in the not too distant future, it remains the law of the land.

JULIE ROSE, KCPW FM 88.3: Governor, a letter of assurance from President Valentine, Speaker Curtis, and yourself, and whoever else might be on this letter, assuring the public that their vote will be respected by lawmakers, I wonder if that would be enough for some people if, for example, the outcome of the referendum is a very small margin. Would that still be something that, would the letter still stay in effect? I mean, you know, if it's 1 percent or 2 percent?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I suspect a win is a win and a loss is a loss. The people will go to the voting booths in November, and they'll be able to express their will on a very important subject, and we, then, I, and whatever the legislative branch decides to do, but so far as I know, that's what they're willing to do, as well, is to respect the outcome, and to my mind the outcome is driven by the numbers. And if it's one vote more for either side then they prevail.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: But Governor, what kind of weight, legally, does this letter really carry? You can't, as the governor, the AG can't as the AG, bind the legislature to future action. I understand that you have the Republican leadership, the majority leadership signing on, but even so, we've heard a number of high ranking Republicans complain that the voucher program will be in place no matter what happens, and all of this is just talk. So what weight will this letter really, actually, carry? Can you guarantee the legislature will take the action you want?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I don't agree with that assessment at all. I think if the letter were to come out and state that, and I think that it will, basically, over the next couple of days, I think that the people of this state will be very well served by their political leaders stating that there is, in fact, a target that everyone recognizes in November as being an up or down vote on vouchers. No gimmicks, no trickery, nothing that would live on beyond the vote, other than basic respect for the outcome. I think that's a pretty darn good thing to have the leaders of the state, particularly during a time of confusion on this particular subject, I think that's probably the best outcome of all. And then we'll just have to wait to see what happens in November.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: And you have absolute confidence that the legislature will follow through on the wishes expressed in this letter?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: That's something that the legislative branch would have to answer. I don't speak for the legislative branch, but the fact that you would have the leader of the senate and of the house come out, basically stating that they would respect the outcome in November, I think is very, very important, and should be recognized as important.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, do you expect Utah to become something of a national battle ground in advance of that November vote with a lot of out of state money coming in, driving the dialogue, driving the advertising, the campaigns, if you will? Could we, in fact, become a national battle ground?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think to a certain extent you'll see a lot of activity surrounding the run up to November. I don't know how much out of state support will be part of that. It might be, I just don't know. But since we have the only truly comprehensive voucher system that has ever been voted on, and signed into law, in history, I suspect that it's going to garner a certain amount of attention.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Do you plan to actively campaign in support of the voucher program?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I'm going to be a facilitator. I will be an honest broker, which is exactly what I should be at this point. We've already had the debates, we've already spoken our piece in the run up to the last legislative session. I signed it, I said everything I wanted to say about why I was signing it, and now I think it's only fair for the governor to be an honest broker and a facilitator straight through November.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: So that means we won't see you any TV commercials or to any rallies saying, go vouchers?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I will not be doing any TV commercials.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Let's shift gears and think of something that is not usually associated with great public interest, and that's gubernatorial appointments to state boards. Generally those are met with small paragraph mentions in the newspaper. But this week, with certain concrete appointments, you seem to be sending very strong signals about a desired new direction for Utah in critical areas, and they would include transportation, higher education, even alcoholic beverages. Your appointments seem to send a very clear signal of a new direction that you desire for the state. Is that a fair characterization?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think some of it is fair, but I don't want to read too much into a natural cycle in our administration, where it's appointments time. And we had 69 individual appointments that were signed off on and made yesterday, made public yesterday, and they cover a lot of different boards. So I would caution you not to read too much into any kind of subliminal subtext.

But for example, putting superintendents on college and university boards, which typically go to a lot of good people, but in many cases political appointments, for me was a very important thing to do. Because we're talking about the K through 16 alliance, and ultimately integrating public and higher ed. And you can talk about it, and then ultimately you can get around to doing it. And in order to get it done you've got to create a culture in which that kind of policy can take place.

So for me, the first step was getting some superintendents in the areas that naturally feed into some of our local colleges in open dialogue on the governance boards of these colleges. Similarly, putting Patty Harrington on the board of regents, that was an important thing to do as a legitimate, full participating, voting member. That's never been done before. And if you really want to take seriously this old notion of the K 16 alliance and integrating public ed needs with higher ed, and ultimately giving all of our kids a chance to get some sort of higher education, this is what needs to be done. This is a first step and I take it very, very seriously. So make of it what you will. This is a serious alignment of public ed and higher ed, and it's done at the highest policy boards at which these ideas are being deliberated.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: Governor, what about the changes to the liquor commission, the department of alcoholic beverage control commission? You've said in the past that you'd like to see changes at some point. You recognize it will take time to accomplish those changes in the state's private club system, allowing private clubs to make memberships optional so they become more like the bars that our tourists and locals who drink are used to. Should we read into those changes that you're making some progress toward that goal?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well again, I would caution you from reading too much into any kind of subliminal subtext, here. I had three appointments, and each person represents an important constituency as far as I'm concerned. I had Sam Granato, who represents the industry. He's been at it for a long time, he represents and understands all facets of that important service industry. Bobby Corrie from up north I thought brought a knowledge of a different part of the state, and having a background in the chamber of commerce, and understanding travel, tourism, and economic development, I thought would bring an interesting perspective there. Gordon Strong was part of the team that I assembled, as you'll remember, during the transition to look at and think critically about what we need to do to maybe make changes over time.

Now we forget that changes have been made, quite substantially, in the years leading up to the Olympics, and I think we'll continue to see that kind of change being made, specifically as it relates to the ounce versus the ounce and a half drink. I've been told by the experts that that makes a difference on the travel and tourism side. And also the whole club arrangement needs to be addressed. And as we have done, and as many continue to do, this will be an ongoing iterative process.

I'm not saying that we're doing this and targeting the next legislative session for action, I'm just saying that this will continue to be a topic of discussion, and I think at the ABC board, that's where much of it, much of it is had. So these are important appointments as far as I'm concerned, and I think they'll serve the state very well. It's important to note that our sales are at about $210, $220 million, we're up about 24, 25 million bucks from last year. We're expanding in this particular area. A lot of money goes into education and health causes for our kids. And so I'm trying to take a realistic and pragmatic approach to now managing and governing what is a major undertaking, both from a programmatic standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint in our state.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: So this is something we might see you advance in your second term if you're re elected.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Oh, I wouldn't go that far. I wouldn't say that I'm even going to be re elected for heaven's sake. You know, it's kind of one year at a time. But these appointments, I thought, were important, and I did a lot of consultation, and I received a lot of input as we led up to those decisions.

JULIE ROSE, KCPW FM 88.3: Governor, I wonder about your thoughts on some issues that are now brewing again with the Legacy Highway, parkway. A couple of years ago you helped to negotiate a compromise that got things moving with the Sierra club and others, and UDOT. Now there is again some tension and threats of legal action from the Sierra club regarding a connector between the legacy park way and the north, proposed north Legacy Parkway going through some wet lands in Farmington. And I wonder if some of the lessons that you've learned in the first process have maybe got you thinking about ways to kind of head off another potential legal issue with the Legacy Parkway.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, first of all I think we begin with the premise of respect for our lands, and I don't think anyone is going to be too much in favor of encroaching upon sensitive wet lands. Two, I think we learned a very important lesson from the legacy exercise, and that is things go better when everyone is brought to the same table, and we understand the points of view of all stakeholders. And that we'll always continue to do.

I thought the outcome was a very propitious outcome, and I think it was only made possible because of those who were seated at the table. You had the Sierra club, you had UDOT, you had local officials, and that was a very, very important thing.

So as we proceed, everything that we do as it relates to any questions on legacy or anything else transportation related, I'm going to make sure that all the right participants are at the table, and all the point of view are understood. And I think if that is, in fact, done to begin with, you can always expect a reasonably good outcome. It might not be exactly what any particular party wants, or went into the negotiations hoping to get, but it will be good for the state generally.

MATT CANHAM, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Staying on transportation, you also made an appointment of a new head of the transportation commission, a former legislator who's been on the commission very briefly, replacing the long term chair. Do you look at that as a sign and a change in the direction of that commission? That move was made before two very important meetings up in Brigham City, they have a billion dollar bond they're going to start making decisions on. Is this a signal that you want different leadership in that area?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, this was a time for change. We had our chair there, who had served for about 13 years, which, to my mind is longer than any chair should serve on any commission, it's longer than any governor should serve, for that matter. So it was all done in the natural course of rotation. No signal in particular. I respect and appreciate the good work that is being done.
Our new chair, of course, comes from the legislature, and was a participant in the legacy discussions. And I think brings a good, solid background in terms of his ability to work with all parties on matters transportation.

JULIE ROSE, KCPW FM 88.3: What about some of the proposals to, that maybe UTA, that transit, Utah transit authority, should be merged with the department of transportation, and that all should fall under one body, given the need to move forward in a unified concept as we deal with Utah's growth?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: That, I think, will always be discussed, and it has been in the past, and I suspect it will be in the future. Whether it's a good idea or not, we have to do the analysis. We have to look at the numbers and the services that are then provided. And if merging UTA and UDOT, for example, is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't have an answer right now. I'm certainly willing to look at the analysis and to make a decision based upon what I think is right for the state, and I think this debate and the analysis will go on for some time. But I want to do what's right for the state.

I mean the good news is we're getting transportation options that never were available for earlier generations. We're going to have commuter rail that will be on line next year, and that's going to be hugely important for people who live in this ever densely populated Wasatch Front. And more in the way of light rail spurs, it's a very, very exciting time from a transportation policy in our state, giving people more in the way of options, diversifying our portfolio at a time of ever higher gas prices. The thought that maybe you can consider an alternative that really is a legitimate alternative is a good thing for our state.

RICH PIATT, KSL 5 NEWS: Governor, a few months ago you called for an investigation into the gas prices when Utah's prices were inordinately higher than the rest of the nation. Are you satisfied now that it appears that things have evened out, that it is as the oil industry indicates, a situation of supply and demand?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I don't think so. I signed a letter with probably 30 or 31 other governors basically calling on congress to take a good look, and even investigate the practices of the big oil companies. I'm not willing to go so far as to say that, you know, we need another trust buster like we had under Teddy Roosevelt's period, with John D. Rockefeller and Standard Oil. But you've got to certainly conclude, logically, that we have a whole lot of oil assets and oil operations, E and P, refining, and all the down stream products in the hands of too few people.

That certainly is a conclusion that one could draw. And is that a good thing for the nation's economy? I don't think it is. And so I signed a letter basically asking congress to take a good look at it.
But again, that's something that congress has to decide. But I think it's a legitimate issue, I really do.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, there's a legislative audit that came out that said it costs somewhere between $54 and $85 million to educate the children of illegal immigrants. Several lawmakers believe that the federal government should reimburse the state for this cost. Do you think that the federal government should pick up the tab for that?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I do. And I think I've said as much, and certainly my partner on some of these immigration issues, Janet Napolitano in Arizona, has said it as well, most recently. Immigration reform is certainly being debated at the highest possible temperatures in Washington, and that's good. And what we would ask, in addition to securing the borders and deploying new technology and ensuring that there is some sort of a realistic and human way of dealing with ten to 12 million people who are here, we also need to look realistically at reimbursing the states for their out of pocket costs. And they would include corrections dollars, health dollars, and education dollars.

Hard to know what they are, but we, as governors, at least a few of us who have spoken out about it, really do feel that as part of comprehensive immigration reform, the states really ought to be reimbursed for their out of pocket dollars.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Do you plan to call for a study that estimates the value of, or contribution to the economy, too, not just their strain on the system, but how much they're paying in taxes and services and that sort of thing, as well?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I don't know that I'll be calling on it. I think it's probably an appropriate thing to be done. Texas did it, for example. I think their comptroller actually called for it and did the study, and it was as opposed to just a cost study, it was a cost benefit study, which gives you a more complete picture of the contributions that are made to the economy, the taxes that are paid that many people don't sometimes stop to consider, or the impact economically that a population is having on a state with a 2.4 percent unemployment. So to be sure, to understand the complete picture, a cost benefit analysis must be done in total to understand it. I'm not going to be calling for that.

What I have called for, what I think is more pressing and more immediate, is immigration reform out of Washington. We've been waiting a long time for this, and it irritates me to no end that we've had to wait this long in order to get Washington moving on it. But it looks like there might be an end in sight.

JULIE ROSE, KCPW FM 88.3: Are you pleased with the bipartisan proposal that is being discussed right now?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: It'll continue to be discussed, but I think they're on to some elements that are good. Certainly the border aspect, securing the border has got to be first and foremost. I've been down to the border with some of our national guard troops, but also dealing with some sort of guest worker program, having some sort of phased in or tiered approach based upon how long people have been here in the country, restructuring the whole bureaucracy in Washington that would be able to expedite citizenship, which is a big part of the problem.

People who come into our nation, I don't care whether it's from Mexico, Romania, or China, there's just, there's a long wait, and it's eight, ten, twelve years on average. So the system there is broken. That needs to be part of it as well. But also dealing with the ten to 12 million people who are already here, and I know they're looking at an English requirement, a penalty in terms of back payment of taxes, those who have been here very long may be going back and starting the process all over again by getting in the back of the line.

The good news for me, as governor, is it's actually being taken seriously. It's being discussed, and I feel confident that we're actually going to have an outcome fairly soon.

RICH PIATT, KSL 5 NEWS: So Governor, if I could ask you just really quickly in the time remaining about water resources. I'm wondering how concerned you are about the use of water. And I personally am a little bit kind of confused about it, because we always do stories about conserve water, you know, slow the flow, et cetera. But I noticed when I was visiting the southwestern part of Salt Lake County recently, there are new homes being put up, large homes with large property, sitting on large property. And when I asked one of the home owners what they planned to do with their property, they said we're going to put in grass. So with what we know now about our water resource, we have literally miles of homes going in with lawns going in that are going to require water. What's going to have to happen, in your opinion?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think, like with so many other areas of public policy, there's a cultural change over time. It isn't immediate but it does take hold over time. And I think the whole ethos of conservation is taking hold. We're doing a whole lot better than we did before. We consume about, I don't know, 7 and a half million acre feet of water in the state. We have so much coming out of the Colorado and other sources.
We're in a drought condition right now, to be sure, as it relate go to the agricultural side of water. On the culinary side, we're doing okay. We're certainly going to have to move forward with Lake Powell pipe line project, which I just looked into a couple of days ago just to get a status report on it.

And we're going to have to work more collaboratively with our neighbors, as I discussed with the governor of Nevada a couple of weeks ago when I went over to see him. And that is dealing realistically with our water needs in two states that are growing cross border. There are cross border issues now that we need to work on in a bilateral fashion instead of a unilateral fashion.

RICH PIATT, KSL 5 NEWS: Is this a tough job to accomplish this? There's so many conflicting interests.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Water is a highly complicated and a highly incendiary issue. And it will be even more so in the years to come, with the growth that is taking place. All you have to do is consider the continuum of our population that will go probably from Las Vegas clear into Iron County over the years to come. And then kind of back into what our water needs will need to be to accommodate that growing population.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, with only about 30 minutes left in our allotted time, or 30 seconds left, I should say, you recently accepted a challenge to shop for a family on a food stamp budget. What lessons or experiences linger with you now that you've done that?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: We need to update the food stamp program by bringing it into alignment with current inflation. It hasn't been adjusted for inflation since 1996. Also, I think the asset test is out of whack. I think we ought to exclude certain aspects of maybe one's retirement when we do the asset test in determining whether someone is eligible for food stamps. But it was an eye opener, to be sure.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, thank you for your time, that concludes our time for the Governor's News Conference on Utah NOW. We'll look forward to joining you next time.

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