January 15, 2009

"...I live with the education issues, both public and higher ed. And I'm very mindful of the progress that we've made in all of these categories over the last three to four years."

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Thanks for joining us, Governor Huntsman. Upcoming legislative session, could wind up being the toughest of your tenure so far because of the budget situation. There's some expectation that President Elect Obama will push for an economic development package, or a bailout package, that is aimed directly at helping state governments through their budget situations. How important is that going to be to your budget proposals, and are you taking a chance if you depend on it?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Thanks, Dan. Happy new year to you. This is an issue that all states are concerned about, and obviously looking forward to. It's a moving target, quite frankly. The size and the substance of the offering.

All I can tell you is we can balance our books in this state without a federal stimulus package. I think some states are not able to say that, and some are absolutely reliant upon a federal bailout in order to close out their books in a balanced fashion. That said, we don't want to lose out on whatever the federal government might be offering. Whether it's targeting education and early childhood development programs, or technology in the classroom, or infrastructure, whether that's defined as roads and bridges or electricity distribution equipment, or even wiring some of our rural areas. Intellectual infrastructure, if you will.

So there's a lot being talked about, it's probably, last I've seen, $275 billion in tax cuts, probably three to $400 billion in government spending, and then I suspect there's going to be a good look at the FMAP rate, at Medicaid, and that will, of course, be of benefit to our state, along with every other state if they allow us a little bit of flexibility in that area.

So while we are not reliant upon a federal bailout in order to balance our books, this would be considered a type of stimulus that would we benefit from in this state. It would allow us a little more fungibility with dollars that we don't have, quite frankly. And that would be a welcome relief in a year like this.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, you talk about being able to balance the books in the state without this federal stimulus package. But you and the legislature have a pretty substantial disagreement on how that needs to be done. Your budget called for cuts of up to 7 percent across the board, with some areas getting what we are calling back fill I guess now, in the state.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Correct.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: The legislature says 15 percent is the number to aim for, and your suggestion that the state dip into the rainy day fund and do some more bonding for roads, is not prudent right now, given the financial situation, and would probably have sort of a lesser effect on the economy in terms of road projects, that what you're calling for would slow down work on some of the road projects, and slow down potential jobs those projects would create. Why the big difference between you and the legislature, and how do you see that being resolved?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, not surprisingly, we have two different world views. I represent all the people in this state, and the legislature represents their various districts, and I can't think of a single situation in this country where you have exact, perfect harmony between the executive and legislative branches, that's just not the way the system works.

So my world view will take me to a different approach to dealing with our budget. And then you reconcile your differences to the best of your ability, and we're working very hard with the house and the senate to be able to close out, first and foremost, 2009. That ought to be priority number one. Because we don't want to waste any time unnecessarily on 2009. The focus of the legislative session really will be on 2010. And dealing wisely and prudently and creatively with the options that we do have, budgetarily.

Now, the good news in our state is that we have options. A lot of states don't have options. We have $420 million in our rainy day fund, we have an AAA bond rating which allows us certain capacity there. We've got a lot of money chasing road projects, which is to say that you could see a little bit of that as a capital revolver account. You can back out that one time money and bond for some of those road projects. And all of these are options that need to be explored, and indeed, we have set them out in fairly concrete ways in our budget, and everyone's looked at them, and they've opined on whether they like it or not. And I think a lot of people like our budget. And now you take what we've put on the table, which is making use of all of the options that we have available from a budgeting standpoint, and reconciling whatever differences remain with the legislature. And they're going to start at one end, we're going to start at another.

The difference primarily, I think and I'm trying to be in a sense a social anthropologist, here, when I say this is that we live with these issues every day. I do, as Governor. I live with the human services issues, I live with the education issues, both public and higher ed. And I'm very mindful of the progress that we've made in all of these categories over the last three to four years. And I am extremely reluctant to want to take a step backward in areas like teacher compensation, where we have gone very aggressively toward recognizing teachers in society, where we have done a lot in the area of human services. Now clearly, everyone's going to have to be subject to some level of cut, every news organization, every family, every business has had to do so.

But let's also recognize carefully those areas in which we've seen enormous gains over the last three to four years, recognize where that has put us vis a vis a lot of other states in America, where we've constantly complained about teacher compensation, constantly complained about the dollars following public education, where we've seen a tremendous increase recently, and be very careful and judicious about the cuts that we then deliver. Cuts, to be sure, but we've also got the ability to back fill, lessening the overall impact of those cuts.

And all we are saying, by putting forward our budget, which is an expression of policy, in a sense, is that we can do it creatively, and this year calls for a healthy dose of creativity as it relates to budgeting, and maybe doing things that are a little unorthodox.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: One option that's being discussed somewhat is shortening the school year. You can save millions of bucks if you just, every day you let the kids out early. Comment on shortening the school year.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, I probably would be the most popular Governor in the country if we chose to do that, particularly with my own kids. Yeah, we work very closely with Patti Harrington and the state board. We see them on a regular basis, as I do Bill Sederburg and leaders in higher ed, and I'm going to take whatever guidance they have to provide. We've sorted through the budget, we've sorted through all of the program areas that are important to them, and I've listened very carefully. And we make decisions based upon the wisdom that the experts have to offer. And I haven't taken this up with Patti recently, but I'd be willing to hear her out on this very subject. But I don't have a definitive answer for you right now.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: Governor, a pretty wide gap exists between you and the Utah senate right now when it comes to alcohol policy. You have suggested the private club designation should be done away with. The Utah senate, it seems, has gone in the opposite direction, even wanting to pass bills that restrict alcohol policy further because apparently Chili's on 400 South looks like a bar. Would you be willing to sign a bill that is going to cost Utah restaurants potentially tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in this tight economy? Is there going to be a meeting of the minds on alcohol policy this year in the Utah legislature, do you think?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well I think so. There usually is a meeting of the minds in a political context. It's never easy, the road getting there, and it's never fun to watch. But ultimately you get to a meeting of the mind. But I would not be supportive of the unfunded mandate or burden that you're putting on restaurants to dismantle what the Supreme Court has already said is allowable and acceptable, and put it in the back room. That's a $100,000, on average, investment, so the restaurant association tells us. And moreover, I think it would be subject to legal challenges. And I say there's probably a fairly simple and elegant fix to it, why don't we just take minors away from the bar, like every other state. They don't need to sit there, and put them at a table along with your family, and let those who want to sit at the bar sit at the bar. And not impose additional burdens or mandates on institutions like Chili's or anybody else to kind of go through a lot of changes and expenditures to meet some new criteria which, to my mind, would represent a step in the wrong direction.

What we're trying to do, here, is in a sense main stream a lot of these policies that are somewhat anachronistic. And if our goal is to come into the 21st century, and have it so it is recognized by the travel and tourism sector, and when I sit down in a room with the travel and tourism experts and they tell me this is the one issue that really is a priority for them, I say, if it's a priority for them, it's a priority for me. Because if they succeed, we succeed as a state, and ultimately class rooms, teachers, and our critical expenditures as a state are enhanced. And when we set a travel and tourism goal of 25 million visitors for the year 2012, which we have, and we're now knocking on the door of 21 million visitors per year, I was down in St. George yesterday, and the mayor, Dan McArthur told me that according to one survey St. George and Washington County is the number one tourist destination now in this part of the United States, because of all the great national parks. Let's build on that, let's build upon what we have to offer as a state in making ourselves a premier destination for travel and tourism opportunities. And in order to accomplish that, the 25 million visitor goal by 2012, you know, we probably need to, you know, burnish a few areas, bring ourselves into the 21st century, and this is one area I hear time and time again, and one that we're going to fix.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: One of the significant movements forward has been last year's passage of a larger alcohol shot, one and a half ounces versus the one ounce pour. Unofficial, you know, we haven't done any kind of formal polling, but industry insiders and the Division of Alcohol Beverage Control has confirmed that not that many bars, at least, are actually pouring an ounce and a half because it screws up a lot of recipes and creates some issues for, you know, for them institutionally. Are you discouraged by the fact that we've got this ability to pour an ounce and a half shot and display our willingness to change in that regard, but not that many people are doing it?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well I am encouraged that we are knee deep in a conversation that has long needed to take place. And I think we're making progress, albeit incremental, and this ounce and a half pour issue is- -You know, we're only six months into it, seven months into it. So let's, you know, check in about five years from now and see where people are. But I think this gets us over, at least it gives purveyors the flexibility to want to serve what people would consider to be a standard pour, and so you know, that long held view that you can't get a regular drink in the state, or a standard drink in the state, you know, changes. And restaurants or bars or purveyors can now do whatever they want to do, and the marketplace will decide what customers want.

But I think we're too recently into this change to draw any kind of conclusions. It's kind of all part of, you know, incrementally stepping toward the finish line. And when we were elected four years ago, we put together a little transition committee on alcohol policy reform, because I heard so much about it during the election of 2004. We got some very smart people together, including some who have been extremely outspoken publicly, and they made three or four recommendations, including this one. So basically we're just listening to those who understand the issue better than anybody else, which I think in public policy's always a good thing to do. And we're knocking them off one at a time. And I hope by the end of three or four years we can say, well, we've reformed the system.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: You're talking long term change. A lot of people interested in alcohol, of course, are not interested in the long term, they're interested in getting that shot. So that's probably their frustration.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Speak for yourself.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Do you feel that the input from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is influencing the discussion on alcohol law changes?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I don't know what their position is on the issue. I don't know that they've stated what their position is. And the debate continues, and all the stake holders are defining their territory, protecting whatever territory they think they need to protect, and ultimately we'll have a public policy that represents the will of the people, and I'm not sure that there's been a position taken that I'm aware of.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, it seems like there might be a little bit, on this same issue, and also on the budget issue, that there's a little broader thing going on. You were talking about social dynamics. But it looks like the legislature is challenging you, particularly on the alcohol thing. They're aggressively making noise that they're going to roll back your initiative to liberalize, or to modernize Utah's liquor license. Is this a kicking of sand in your face? Are you going to have to call them out on this?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: No, I think this is probably representative of any legislative session. There's to ing and fro ing, as my daughters would say. You know, a lot of drama. And I think whetheR- - It doesn't matter whether you have a $1.7 billion surplus, or you're in the hole. You know there's never a dispassionate session. There's always a lot of passion, and always a lot of drama. And that's kind of the way it should be. I mean we live in a vibrant, a changing democracy. It is not static, and if it were I'd be concerned. We push the envelope, we throw new issues out there, and we debate them. And I think that's a sign of political health more than anything else. The fact that somebody might be kicking sand in our face, I think that's a sign of progress and debate and discussion. If you weren't kicking up a little bit of dust it would be a stagnant system.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Are you prepared to kick back? Are you prepared to put your political capital on the line this session more than in the past?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think you've seen that we're holding our ground, and we always do. And we make progress every legislative session on the issues that we feel are important. But this is all part of the healthy give and take of any political system. I'm not concerned in the least about that. What you might not be paying attention to are the people in the legislature who support what we're trying to do. I'm sure there are a lot of those, and some voices are more outspoken than others, and some people get the headlines. But I think there is the political will on the part of a whole lot of legislators to see a lot of the things done that we are advocating, whether it's on the budget side or whether it's on alcohol.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, one of those things would be ethics reform. And it appears that the Republican majority in the Utah legislature is ready to take on the issue of ethics reform in terms of campaign money, gifts to legislators, and other issues. Have you looked at the proposals and do you feel that they are going far enough and doing the right thing there?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well I think we let the public determine that, and I think the public will express, through their various voices, whether they feel what there is movement in the right direction. The fact that there are 29 individual bills targeting ethics reform in some way, shape or form, I think is a good sign. And there's a lot of discussion about it this year, for all kinds of reasons. And I don't think there's ever an end point in terms of building greater trust and confidence in public service. I think we, as public servants and elected officials always need to be assuming that more can be done. And you never reach that end point. And the fact that there's a lot of discussion, a lot of debate, and a lot of proposed legislation, I think is a very, very good thing. You know, at some point I'd really like to see us get, you know, smart about campaign finance reform. You know, it's a wide open system, we're one of the few states left that actually have a wide open system that I think is subject to mischief and possible manipulation. And so you take these one at a time.

It's going back to kind of the iterative, or the incremental approach to public policy. You know, we've taken positions as an executive branch, the legislature has now taken a lot of these up because they feel, I think, that there is a desire on the part of the public to move in that direction. We'll see where the legislature takes us. I'm interested in, and you'll hear probably more about this next week, in paneling a group of experts to look longer term at what really lies beneath our dismal voter turnout numbers as a state. The fact that we rank so low in overall voter turnout is completely unacceptable for a state that is as public spirited as ours. And what lies, you know, what lies beneath that? Why are people not fully confident in the process? Is it campaign finance? Is it the nomination system, the convention system? Is it the redistricting approach that people take? I don't know. But I do know that we can get some good minds together and we can figure out new solutions and ways forward. And I hope that, you know, by some time later in the year we can get some good ideas from this group and see if, you know, there aren't some ideas that we should be acting on as a state.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Tell us about the inauguration. Where are you going to sit? Where are you going to stay? Where are you going to party?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, it really is confined to my daughter, Abby's apartment building. She's working in Washington for a news organization, and she's kindly loaned out her sofa, so we'll be sleeping on her sofa in her apartment for a couple of nights. And we're going to attend, of course, the inauguration event on Tuesday, which will be historic, and I think a very exciting opportunity for everybody. And on Monday the run up to it, I think there are some events that we'll be attending as well. Some Utah specific events, some national events that the Governors will be attending.

And I think this is one of these truly historic moments. And I don't know during my lifetime if we've seen a lot of these historic moments where there is a major transition in people and in mind set and in the overall sense of hope and direction for the nation. We saw it in, you know, certainly 1960, the year that I was born. We've seen it in 1980, and now we're seeing it again. And I think it brings about kind of a new sense of direction for a nation that needs it right now. And I'm looking forward, as one citizen, to kind of taking it all in. Trying to put it in perspective.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, when it comes to alcohol policy, some of the opposition in the legislature is coming from lawmakers who think that Utah's unique liquor laws somehow contribute to our low rateS of DUI, low consumption rates among minors. Has anyone specifically said how Utah's private club system, or the Zion curtain, is responsible for reducing DUI fatalities or underage consumption?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: All I've been told is that there is no connection. And if some of the experts are willing to weigh in and provide data that it does otherwise, then, you know, we ought to be open to accepting that. But as part of this compromise would be kind of a more rigorous identification check on the front end, and maybe more rigorous liability assumption on the back end. Although as far as I can tell we're probably second highest in the country already when it comes to liability caps. New York is probably about 2 million and I think we're, between server and establishment, about 1.5 million dollars. So there are some areas that probably ought to be looked at in terms of appropriate safeguards that might address whatever concerns that people have in that regard.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, what about taking the sales tax off food? The state's share.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: It's a good thing.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Well you've brought this up recently, suggesting that the cigarette tax be raised significantly to cover the costs of taking sales tax off food. But you're suggesting it in a year of real budget crisis, and also you're suggesting it's a big priority for you, and yet it wasn't included in your own budget. Why not, if it's such an important priority?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, it is more of a legislative initiative than it would be a budget priority. And as Governor, I feel it's important to throw up ideas, and to be out there a little bit in front on some issues that people might not otherwise be willing to talk about. So you throw something out, and people might not bite initially, but they'll process it, think about it, and debate it. And while it is a tough economic time, let us not forget that every single one of our citizens, particularly those most in need and vulnerable, are standing in that checkout line. And many are already benefitting from the drop in the food tax from just about 7 percent down to 1.75 percent at the state level. And to be able to take that off completely during a time of economic difficulty, I would argue, is a good thing for people who need it in today's environment. And allocating some of that money for purposes, also, of enhancing some aspects of human services, maybe overall tobacco education and awareness, cancer related issues might not be bad. I just think this is a debate that we ought to have. It's a public health issue, and we need to recognize that. And as a public health issue, it ought to be addressed, and as we address it, there are some other areas, probably, that could benefit from increasing the tax rate on cigarettes.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, we have just a minute or two left. In that time, I understand you've spent some time in Singapore. There is an initiative in the Utah legislature to support a pilot project for the mathematics program that is taught in the schools in Singapore. I was wondering if your experience with the Singaporean schools, there, is in any way translatable to what needs to happen in Utah?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think there are a lot of externalities that one would need to look at when you look at math as it's taught in Singapore, Taiwan, or Korea, which are generally thought to be the top three math countries in the world. There's something to be learned from all of them, and their text books are a little bit different in the case of Singapore math. The way in which they instruct their teachers, and the training they give them is a little bit different. And the thought of having a pilot project in our state, much the same way that Los Angeles county has done in some of their inner city schools with Singapore math and found great advances, by the way is an interesting concept. And I've talked to the foreign minister of Singapore about the possibility of having some sort of arrangement where we could exchange maybe teachers, we could exchange text books, and see where it takes us. But I'm also consulting with our math- - we've got a great math advisor aboard- - and let's not forget that we've got the Park City math institute, which is probably world renowned, tied to the institute for advanced study of Princeton, so we've got some of the truly great experts here that we can draw from.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Thank you, Governor Huntsman.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Thank you.

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