September 24, 2009

"We have mandatory requirement by Constitution for public education and funding, 13,000 new students there, which is going to be a significant challenge." -Governor Herbert

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Thanks for joining us today, Governor, we appreciate you coming by. We're starting a whole new school year, here, at Utah's public colleges and universities, and Utah Valley University has seen record increase in enrollment, lots of other colleges have seen significant enrollment growth, in part because of the economy. Will that enrollment growth lead to any special consideration for higher education as you put your budget together for the coming year?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, clearly it's going to be a major part of our budget consideration. Education in all of its forms. We have mandatory requirement by Constitution for public education and funding, 13,000 new students there, which is going to be a significant challenge. Higher education, we estimate over 10,000, a record number, entering into our higher education institutions, and that clearly is going to have some impact on the budget. It's a reflection, not only of the economy, but in the downturn and people wanting to retool and get better education and training to go out there and prepare themselves for the marketplace. But it is an indication of the global nature of the competition. And we really are going to have to be more prepared than ever before, and higher education is no longer a luxury. It's going to become a necessity.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Any plan to make higher education more higher education more affordable at a time when there's rising tuition costs, and also at the same time a lot of students complain about decline in quality because they've got fewer professors, fewer staff to handle the growing load?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think there's going to be a component part of the private sector needs to step up and help defray the costs. We have some of our more successful institutions have foundation work where they actually go out and get alumni and others who want to help defray costs from a private source, and they're having great success at that. So that's one of the areas that we can at least foster, charitable giving, to help keep the cost of education down. I think we need to make sure that we have time in the classroom. There's probably going to have to be more hours by professor in the classroom, and that maybe indicates less research. It's going to be a balancing act, and I expect each institution will find their own way, with their own leadership team, their board of trustees, to find out what's the most efficient way to deliver their education component to their customers. And it's going to be a collaborative effort with our board of regents, our college presidents, but it's something that's going to be a challenge that we'll address, and I think we'll find success.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: At a meeting last week President Young said that if you cut deeper into colleges you're going to end up you're going to end up hurting quality. You cut his You found all the efficiency you can find. When you propose your budget are you going to be proposing cuts to the higher education budget?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it's premature to decide whether I'm going to have cuts, and what priorities will be there and how we'll rearrange the dollars on the budget. But it's probably hard for anybody to believe that there's not some efficiencies that can be found in higher institution education learning, or even in state government. That's the reason we formulated our Bangerter commission, to see what ways we can streamline the services in state government. And we've been recognized as the best managed state in America. But that doesn't mean that we're perfect, that doesn't mean that there aren't other ways of doing things maybe more efficiently, and better, and get a bigger bang for the taxpayers' dollar. So I would have a hard time believing that even in our colleges and universities we could not find better ways to deliver the education system at less expensive prices.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Two groups of high minded citizens are gathering signatures on petitions to reform the legislature. One of them to change the way boundaries are drawn and redistricting, so that it's done by high minded citizens, rather than by legislators, and another to impose a code of ethics to improve legislative behavior. Do you support these efforts?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think the goals and objectives of these high minded citizens are laudable and I do support them. I think we have high minded legislators, though, too, and I think to indicate that there's not lofty goals and objectives on all sides of this issue would be to denigrate people who are giving of their time and talent and service to the people of Utah. I think the initiative petitions need to be looked at and scrutinized to see what the unintended consequences may be. I think the goals and objectives are good. There's a fiscal note concern to it, and at least from my own perspective I want to hear arguments on both sides of the issue and see what can be done. The challenge with initiative petitions is there's no ability to modify, tweak, change the, what could become state law. And so again, I think it behooves all of us to pay rapt attention to what the initiative petition presents.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: In fact, will you sign?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: What?

ROD DECKER, KUTV: If asked, will you sign?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I may, but I'd have to analyze it and see. I'm going to have people on both sides talk to me, the pros and the cons, so that I can have a good analysis of the facts and the data before I would weigh into the consideration. But again, I think the goals for ethics reform and fairness in our election process are goals that we ought to all subscribe to.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: You've already received a report from a sort of a blue ribbon committee that was put together by your predecessor to improve democracy in Utah. And you apparently have dismissed that report without ever reading it.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: What report is that? I don't know what report you're talking about.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: The report about capping funding, or capping costs or capping contributions to campaigns.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I've not received a report from anybody on capping campaign contributions.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Right, but you have already spoken, at least you've been quoted in newspapers, as saying that you weren't interested

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I've had questions asked me for the last number of years. I've always tried to answer honestly and fairly and succinctly on my positions. The report you're referring to is an interview that took place before anything came out of the Huntsman commission on Democracy that you're referring to. I'll speak to that group, I'm more than happy to listen to their arguments and be persuaded by logic and reason if my position is wrong, but I do have some concerns about capping campaign limits. I think it's a free speech issue, I think we, by default, give too much power to incumbents. You can see that as you analyze the campaigns that are going on now, and particularly big time politics, and what we're saying, I think, with campaign limitations, is only the rich can apply. And I think for average people, which 85 or 90 percent of are what I consider average, it makes it difficult to compete against those who are rich. That being said, I'm more than happy to look at some kind of reasonable proposal. I'm not hard and fast on my position, if you can convince me of a better way to do it. But don't confuse the fact that I answered a question in a report that came out weeks before, some kind of recommendation I have not seen other than through the newspaper, and it's not even finalized yet today. I'll look at those recommendations at the appropriate time, and weigh in as is appropriate.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: So you're willing to consider, then, you are willing to consider a campaign contribution cap?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I would consider any kind of reasonable election reform. Again, I think there's a need to look at it and analyze it, and I'm more than happy to sit down with people who are diametrically opposed to my point of view. Let's reason together. I think that's part of the Democratic process. I'm not afraid of that kind of discussion. But I've got my own point of view, have had for many years. Now, evidently, it means more because I'm the Governor, as opposed to when I said the same things when I was Lieutenant Governor. I understand that. We'll have an opportunity to have those kind of discussions, and see what comes out of it. But I'll be meeting with the commission here next week, I'm on their agenda, and I look forward to talking to them.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, getting back to the budget, you're in the process of getting reports from state agencies about what they need next year. You've already been on the record as saying you will not call for any tax increases in your budget. Isn't it disingenuous to suggest there's a way anyone can avoid cuts in your budget, if you don't increase taxes at this point?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't know that I've ever said we could avoid cuts. We may have to reprioritize and shift moneys, and do things in more efficient ways, and find ways to streamline our services. There may be some adjustments we'll make in the levels of service that we give. So that's all part and parcel of putting together a budget. That's no different, though, than any other time. We have less revenue this time, and so it's going to be a little more difficult. We have some challenges. I'm inheriting the state at the worst economic time maybe in our state's history. So I recognize there are bumps in the road, but my focus is on growing the economy. And that needs to be the focus that all of us have in creating wealth and creating jobs as we pull out of this by economic expansion. I just believe that raising taxes sends the wrong message to the marketplace, and has a dampening effect on the growth of the economy. That's an unwise position to take, and I think an unwise process. So I'm going to be very careful about raising taxes, and we may have to make some adjustments when it comes to cuts.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: My understanding is this, the projected shortfall of revenues as opposed to this year's current fiscal year spending, is 700 to 800 million dollars. The legislature last time enacted cuts which are there now on the books of 465 million, or thereabouts, and then they used Obama money from Washington to tide it over a year. Have you had a chance to look First, is that generally your understanding, too? Second, have you had a chance to look at those $465 million, about, in cuts? Do you approve of those cuts that will automatically go into effect, I guess, across the board, unless changed. And you tell us what some of them are?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, the budget process is something that's kind of a work in progress. I will meet with all my cabinet members and department heads, we're going to do that on a one on one basis. We'll be meeting through October and November as we put together the budget. There's about $400 million that was back filled with Obama money, as you've phrased it, and this kept us kind of in a whole state of keeping the services without having to make any cuts and adjustments. We have rainy day fund money, about $514 million, that we have to look at, $100 million for education, 414 for general fund purposes. So we have some ability to, in fact, back fill with our rainy day fund to, again, keep us on a tack that would hopefully not have too draconian of a cut in the services. In the services. But it's going to be a challenge to balance the budget.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Have you had a Do you know what those, that 400 odd million is in cuts that have already been enacted and then filled with federal money. Do you know what they are? Can you tell us what any of them are? What would get cut?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I didn't know. I haven't made those decisions yet. But I can tell you last year, every department, just kind of across the board, ended up having 8, 9 percent in cuts from last year. It would have been probably twice that, 17, 18 percent, without the back fill.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Okay, so you're talking another 8 or 9 percent cuts that are already enacted by the legislature, sitting there and as nearly as I can tell you'll use some rainy day money to avoid to some extent- -

GOVERNOR HERBERT: To keep us whole from last year we used the rainy day fund, the back fill like we did last year, probably have some additional cuts and adjustments, maybe that's at the 4 or 5 percent level.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Do you feel good enough about the economy to expend $400 million in rainy day fund that the legislators fear that it's not really raining yet? Would you feel comfortable putting large amounts of that money into current budget?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well again, it's a work in progress, Rod, and so we'll see what happens. But it's not whether it's raining outside. I think everybody knows it's raining. The question's when's the storm going to be over? Is it going to be over this year? Next year? I think we've got a difficult budget session this time. We need to anticipate still some bumps in the road maybe a year from now, but clearly the economy is showing signs of bottoming out and turning the corner. So the worst thing we could do would be to do something that would put a brake on a glimmer of hope, here, with the economy. Let's see if we can't get through this budget session and hope that things are improved for the 2012 session.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Governor, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has staffers in town right now who are conducting a workshop about depleted uranium. It's a material that's already going to Energy Solutions' facility at the Clive facility in Tooele County. Your predecessors, Governor Leavitt, Governor Huntsman, were largely seen as the buffers against a legislature which was more willing to allow that stuff to come in. What is your stance on material coming into the state? What statement are you willing to make about what you believe should and should not come into Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, clearly Energy Solutions shouldn't do anything that's not in accordance with the law and in accordance with their permitting process. So we first start with the basic rule of law. Secondly, I have concerns about depleted uranium. The reason I have concerns about depleted uranium is it has such a long half life. It's like four and a half billion years. It's forever. And the thing that causes most of us concern with the depleted uranium is that it gets hotter over time. And so that's got, I think, a lot of us concerned about the long term ramifications. Unfortunately for us the Nuclear Regulatory agencies have classified that as class A waste. And so they have the right, at least under the law, to bring that waste in. That's something I'm more than happy to sit down with Energy Solutions and see if there's not something that we can do to stop that from coming in, or find a win win, if that's possible with this. I think we need to have some kind of discussion on that issue. It's kind of a new, emerging thing that's happening, that I don't think most people have been aware of. I'm as concerned about that, maybe even more so, than I am about foreign waste coming in.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: And state regulators, or a state board, decided not to issue a moratorium before 14,000 more metric tons come in from South Carolina. They made that decision on Tuesday, and that depleted uranium comes into the state within a month.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Do you agree with that decision, or would you have liked them to issue a moratorium?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well it's a complicated issue. Part of the problem, the reason that I believe they decided to go ahead and say don't put a moratorium on, and came down on that position, was because nobody's too happy about if we take a hard stance and have a moratorium, having the federal government coming in and taking over the regulation for the state of Utah. And the state doesn't want to give up that responsibility to somebody from Washington, D.C. I don't even think Energy Solutions wants that to happen. So I think that the motivation, here, is the threat that we would lose the ability to control our own destiny within the state.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: The threat from the federal government.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Are you convinced that DEQ, Amanda Smith, the Radiation Control Board, those agencies that have this responsibility are handling their jobs independently and competently?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I do. I do, I think Amanda Smith has got great credibility as far as her understanding of the environment and her concerns over a long time of history of concern for the environment. So I think she's the right person at the right time to head up our DEQ. I think those on the Radiation Control Board are bright, intelligent people, that understand the issue as their background and their scientific training goes. So I think we've got the right people in place. And I think they're doing a fine job.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: And you mentioned depleted uranium might be a bigger concern than foreign nuclear waste. But tell me more about that. Because do you remain concerned about that waste from Italy, and possibly opening the flood gates from other countries, as well?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Absolutely. Our goal and objective ought to stop foreign waste from coming into the state of Utah. And I think that's something all of us really kind of can agree to. And so that goal and objective remains paramount. But that's all the same kind of waste. It's low level class A waste, and it's, in my view, it becomes, it's dormant, it doesn't become more hot, more radioactive over time. Depleted uranium does. It changes, it decomposes and becomes hotter. And so that's a concern for me that even trumps the traditional low level class A waste that they've been storing out there.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: More, according to the newspapers more than half of all concealed carry weapons permits issued in Utah are issued to out of staters. There's some delay in the process, partly because there's so many people apply, there's some expense attached. Are you concerned that Utah issues permits to people all across the nation, or do you believe that it's a good idea for Utah to be the citadel of the Second Amendment?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well I think we need to protect the Second Amendment, that's for sure, and Utah to stand tall if that regard. That being said, I don't want to be a wholesale clearing house for anybody that comes into Utah that we don't have the ability to kind of track and understand that we're giving permits to, that they then go someplace else outside of our borders and conduct themselves inappropriately. So it's something that bears looking into. I'm not much into reciprocity from, whether it's real estate licenses or gun licenses. I think Utah needs to find out what we think is important for Second Amendment issues, and do what we think's right as a state right here in Utah. Let others do the same. But we ought not to be a wholesale clearing house for permits.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You're open to tightening permits somewhat for those from out of state, is what I thought I heard.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, I would be.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: What about other states that want to perhaps tighten down and not honor Utah permits? Is that

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, I think states have the right to do what they want within their borders. And that's a state right issue, and again, we have Constitutional issues with the Second Amendment, but it's not just a carte blanche absolute draw the lines with clarity. There are some flexibilities in that, and so I think states have the right and responsibility to determine what's in their own best interests.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, you've said you favor rapid disclosure of campaign contributions. Within 48 72 hours. But at the same time you've yet to file to run for Governor, which would subject you to having to report your campaign donations within 30 days. Why haven't you walked down the hall to file and subjected yourself to that law?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I haven't filed to run for re election yet so I guess you need to do things in the proper order.

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Well why not?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well my concentration right now is on governing. I mean I've got I've just been on the job here for a month and a half, and having at least the legal authority. So let's govern first. I need to make sure we get that going before we concentrate on any kind of re election. 2010 is the year for re-election. And I expect that as the appropriate time happens we'll have a web site, we'll file, and we'll do all those things necessary. And I will, in fact, voluntarily have instantaneous disclosure of campaign donations.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: But if you're not running for Governor, why are you having this big gala next week?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We have a Governor's gala every year. It's a tradition in Utah. I'm continuing with the tradition. There's other expenses besides re election. Events that I go to that ought not to be passed on to the taxpayer. Whether we have expenses involved that ought not to be paid for by the taxpayer, spouse travel, there's a lot of areas that we ought to raise money for. Some of it's going to be helping us get around the state of Utah and invite other people that can't afford to come to a Governor's gala to have access to let me speak to the Governor as we travel all 29 counties of the state, as we've talked about in our inaugural. So again, we'll do it in the appropriate way and the appropriate fashion. Campaigning's going to be in 2010.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Could you tell us some of the

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: What then stops you, though, from going ahead and posting contributions that come from, say, the gala or your recent fund raiser in Denver, now, even though you're not legally obligated you certainly could do that to set an example. Is that something you- -

GOVERNOR HERBERT: That's probably worth considering. I just hadn't thought about it from that standpoint. But again, I've got nothing to hide and I think instantaneous disclosure is a principle that ought to be embraced by everybody. I think the public has wisdom, and although I'm criticized because I have a concern about limiting free speech and campaign donations, I trust the public. And so I think that's a good suggestion, Lisa, and you know having a web site where we disclose what we've received, the public can factor that in as they decide to give or withdraw support. And I think that's more important, to have disclosure, than just to limit the campaign donations. Again, part of the challenge we have, people in elected offices get our message out, so people know us, know what we stand for, and can make a determination. And the ability to raise revenues to get your message out is the key component part of having a democratic republic where the public knows who to vote for and can make a decision. It's an informed decision. And unfortunately, in today's society it costs money to get your message out. And so it's an important issue, I'm looking forward to the recommendations that come out of the democracy, the Commission on Democracy, and we'll have that dialogue and discussion and see where it comes down.

LISA RILE ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: When will you decide whether to go forward with voluntarily releasing that data? The gala's coming

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You say when will I?

LISA RILE ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Yeah, the gala's coming in October. Would you decide before that so people could know who's supporting you there? GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, I don't know. I haven't even thought about it. But I'll give it consideration and see what we should do. I think it's a good suggestion. ROD DECKER, KUTV: Can you help us with the facts? You had a fund raiser in Denver? Is that correct? Can you tell us about- -

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know if it was a fund raiser. I ended up getting some checks. It was people that wanted to meet with me, talk about Utah's future, particularly when it came to energy development, in all of its different forms, not only traditional fuels, but renewables. And out of that meeting, there, I ended up getting some checks later from people that said we like what you said and we think you're the right guy.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: About how much?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think I raised 15 or $20,000.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: And how much is typically raised these days from a Governor's gala?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Oh, gee, I think you can go back to the Leavitt days

ROD DECKER, KUTV: 200, 250?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Significantly more than that, I think, during Governor Leavitt's term.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Half a million might be right?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Probably somewhere even north of that.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Okay, so a lot of money. And can the money raised at the gala then be applied later to a campaign, if that's what you choose? Or can you give it to other candidates to apply to their campaign?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You can use it for your own campaign, you can help other candidates. You have the ability to use it for a variety of different uses.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: When you leave office can you put it in your pocket?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, since we're talking about this, you, before, referred to the Commission on Democracy as Governor Huntsman's Commission on Democracy. Is it not now your Commission on Democracy?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I've certainly inherited it, just like I've inherited everything else, Glen. But it was started by Governor Huntsman. He modified it himself before he left. I've sent a letter acknowledging that they are in the middle of their work and I've encouraged them to continue, that I look forward to their report. And that's where it sits right now today. I think they're doing good things, well intentioned, and they're trying to find reasonable solutions to what they perceive as problems out there, and I'm anxious to hear what they have to say. Again, to that end, I'm going to go meet with them, I think this next week sometime, to talk about those issues, and to encourage them to complete that and look forward to having their recommendations on my desk at the appropriate time.

LEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Considering the public's interest in this subject of reform and ethics, the groups, the initiatives, do you think you might launch your own initiative into reform and ethics?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well I haven't gotten to the point where I've thought that that's something I needed to be doing. There's so many different issues on the table. I'm focusing on governing, what we have the challenge right now and getting a budget put together and growing the economy and trying to deal with the challenges of education. There's a lot of issues. And you know there are probably 50 of them that we ought to be dealing with. But I'm only one person and I can only do so much. And so I have no plans to launch any kind of an initiative out there regarding ethics. I think what's being done now is adequate. I would become just redundant, at least in the executive branch, we want to make sure that we are open and transparent, and we have good, high ethics as we've done in the past. So I'm continuing the tradition of Governor Huntsman in the executive branch. I'm sure that the legislative branch can take care of itself.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Thank you very much, Governor.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

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