January 21, 2010

"...on the education front, that we're going to be putting together on this Governor's Education Excellence Commission that I'm going to chair personally, we're going to find that we can bring people together in process." -Governor Herbert

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, thanks for joining us today. It's fair to say there's a flurry of activity in the days leading up to the start of the 2010 state legislative session. But the one issue that touches rank and file Utahns most immediately in their lives is that of the next state budget, and how we're doing fiscally. You've laid out your vision. Are you and state legislative leaders seeing eye to eye on the spending plan for Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Not yet. But I hope that we do in the future. I think we've laid out a very reasonable and rational and, more importantly, a responsible budget. And I expect that, as the legislature goes through their vetting process, as we've already done, that they're going to come pretty close to understand my recommendations and say, "That really is probably a good way to go." So we've laid out a good starting point for them, I think it's been actually well received considering how Governor's budgets in the past have been received. So I'm cautiously optimistic that they're going to be pretty close to my budget recommendations at the end of the legislative session.

RICH PIATT, KSL-TV: It seems there's mixed messages going on. A lot of people are expressing optimism long term about Utah's economy, but in the short term, just yesterday some of the subcommittees were advocating for 4 percent cuts for higher education, some of the lawmakers are even talking about systemic changes to higher education. For example, not having an engineering program in one of the colleges in the state, because why do we need all those engineering programs? Do you favor those kinds of measures, if necessary, to balance the budget and to move forward?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think that's why we get together once a year, to explore different ideas and different opinions, and see if we can do things in a more effective and efficient way. And I expect the legislature is trying to find ways to, in fact, balance the budget, protect essential services, make sure there's not redundancy in the system. I also believe that they are taking the approach that it's a lot easier to take away at the beginning and add back at the end than it is to have a full monty of budget and then come back after the fact and take it away. So I think their approach is a little on the extra conservative side. I think they want to make sure that we're, you know, wringing out of the budget everything we can for the taxpayers' dollars. But I think, again, at the end of the day, they're going to find that the numbers we have and we put on the table are pretty accurate, and pretty responsible moving forward.

RICH PIATT, KSL-TV: Will you be open to some kind of systemic, a look at the way the system works, and maybe making systemic changes to a lot of state programs?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm certainly willing to look at anybody's ideas, and ideas of what we can do to make the programs work better and more efficiently. I'm doing that with the Bangerter Commission. We already are looking, and everything's on the table to find ways to supply services to the people of Utah in more effective and efficient ways. And hopefully saving money along the way. It's not all about cost cutting, it is about being efficient and then using technology and other opportunities that we have. I think as you find, as we go forward, particularly on the education front, that we're going to be putting together on this Governor's Education Excellence Commission that I'm going to chair personally, that we're going to find that we can bring people together in process. Not just only money, it is, are there more efficient ways to do it? Not only public education, but particularly in higher education. So I think it serves us well to discuss these things, and debate them, and see if there's not a better way to build a mouse trap.

MAX ROTH, FOX 13: You said that you think that they're being extra conservative as they look at the finances. If you were sitting down with them right now and you were saying, "I think you're being extra conservative in this way," how are they being extra conservative?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think they're very concerned about having enough money to pay the bills. And we are, in fact, tracking revenue, revenue has decreased over the last two budget cycles a billion dollars, so that's 1,000 million. That's a significant decrease in revenue. We've always prided ourselves in Utah of having fiscal prudence, we've been recognized as the best managed state in America, and so they're concerned, are we in structural balance? Are we paying as we go? Do we have our revenue stream equal our expense stream? And so I think they're saying, "Well, what if we cut back more? What will the results of that be to get back into structural balance?" We're out right now about $460 million. My budget proposal actually reduces it to $440 million structurally out of balance. So I think they're exploring that possibility, what does it mean? What will happen if we cut an extra 5 percent? I've already done that. I know that that's too draconian. That is not the direction we want to go, and we don't need to. We don't need to cut into public education or higher education. We can maintain the level we're at now, we can maintain the service levels that we have now in government services that are being demanded by the people of Utah, and, as I've said before, we can do it without having to raise taxes.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: But Governor, if your own commission is looking at some of these cuts that Rich was talking about, and I've heard some of these from lawmakers myself, closing college campus in the state's university system, eliminating degree programs, eliminating social services programs that people depend on, not just to solve this current budget crunch, but to make a kind of major change that a lot of, especially conservative lawmakers, want to make. They want to see less government. Is that what your own commission is going to recommend? Less government?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know. We're going to let the commission do the work. I'm not going to pre guess what they're going to come up with as far as conclusions or recommendations, but I know that they're looking at every corner of government, seeing if we are as efficient and effective in the delivery of systems as we can be. It's not a matter of just saying, "Well, let's eliminate a section of government." It's a matter of looking to see if we can optimize the services that we're already providing. And if we can find efficiencies and savings along the way. So who knows what the commission is going to come up with? It's important to vet the issues. The fact that we have a discussion doesn't mean that we're going to do it. At the end of the day we have pros and cons and points of view and opinions, and then I think at the end of the day common sense will prevail as we represent the public, as they would want us to do. I can't see any kind of draconian measures to cut government services to the level that the public is going to say, "Wait a minute, we want that service." It is a republic, we do represent the people, and I think at the end of the day that's exactly what the legislature will do.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Is government too big, in your mind? That's what so many are concerned with lawmakers are saying. They're seeing this as an opportunity to make the kind of cuts they believe need to be made to bring government more in line where they think it should be. Where are you on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, "government too big" is such an overall generic term, is what is "too big?" Most of us believe federal government is too big. It seems to be encroaching in every aspect of our lives. I think most people think local government's about right. The state's somewhere in the middle. It's not that it's too big, it's just we want to make sure it's efficient, and that we are getting the best bang for the taxpayers' dollars in providing the services. The old adage, if you can find the service in the yellow pages, probably the government doesn't need to be in the business. But there are essential services that we believe that state government should provide. I'm not anti government, I just want to know that what government I have is darned efficient. And so as the legislature and others look at this, we're going to look at kind of an opportunity to trim the rose bush back. Occasionally that happens in life, and pruning back the rose bush doesn't mean we want to kill it. It just means we want to grow back stronger, more beautiful than ever before. And that's kind of what's happening now. We're going through this cycle, and there's going to be some pruning of the rose bush, but we're going to come back more strong, and more beautiful than ever before, I believe.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW-FM 88.3: Governor, a couple of weeks ago you were ready to sign an agreement with the state of Nevada over sharing the water in the Snake Valley aquifer that has since changed, from what I understand. What is the time like line looking like right now, and why is there any pressing need to get this agreement done in the next couple of weeks, or even months?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well one, I've never been on a time line and been ready to sign anything. I've always said there is no rush, and that's my point of view, has been from the beginning, to sign this, until we feel comfortable that it's in the best interests of Utah. And I've worked with the Millard County commissioners, certainly the advisory commission has given me some input too. But we've talked with a lot of people, have had public meetings, have got significant input.

Water issues are complicated, but the issue for the state of Utah is not complicated. And we've been very consistent from the beginning, starting with Governor Huntsman, and continuing on in my administration, that one, we will protect the water rights that Utah has, first and foremost, protect Utah's water. Secondly, we're going to protect the environment out there, and thirdly, we're going to work to find what is the equitable distribution of the water.

Nevada has rights, they have water rights, 65 percent of the water in that basin originates on the Nevada side of the border. So we're trying to come up with an agreement that protects Utah's water rights, in fact makes it primary; two, protects the environment out there, and so we can monitor it, and then has an ability to divide the water fairly. And the agreement we have on the table actually comes pretty close to all those three things. In fact, we have environmental protections in place such that as we monitor out there over the next ten years and we see degradation of the environment out there, that Nevada has to stop pumping water, even if they haven't received their fair share of the basin.

So I'm not ready to sign it yet. I think there are a few things that we need to nuance there to make sure we've got teeth and enforcement capabilities in the agreement. But I am convinced of this, for Utah's future, and to protect the water of Utah from a grab from Nevada or an unintentional grab, because they certainly are not saying we're going to try grab your water, but that pipe could suck water out of the valley that is Utah water. Doing nothing is the wrong thing to do. We are better off as a state to protect our water and our environment by having an agreement that gives us some kind of capability to litigate and to enforce to maintain our water rights and our environment.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-TV: Governor, this is just one issue of water embattled around one of the most arid states in the union. On the other side of the state you have a Denver entrepreneur who's trying to tap into the Green River. There have been arguments for a generation over the allocations of the Colorado river, whether that is still equitable. Is it time for Utah to be a player in a total reconsideration of what it means to manage water resources in the American west, instead of depending upon 80 or 150 year old water law?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I think a healthy discussion on water and the future of water in the intermountain region is probably a healthy discussion. I'm reluctant to go back and open up the 1922 Colorado River Compact. There can be some mischief that occurs there by states that have more political muscle than we would have maybe in Utah. And so I'd be concerned about that. It's an interesting compact, we don't have time to go into that today, but we need to protect our water right in Colorado River from the 1922 compact.

I think conservation has clearly got to be on everybody's table. We have a "Slow The Flow" program in Utah we're trying to implement, and reduce water consumption by 25 percent by 2020. And we're on pace to do that. We're doing better with conservation. We can do more. We have still opportunities to develop and decide our state borders water resources. The conservation of what we already have, development of what we need in the future is clearly a key issue as we move forward. Because water really is the only limiting factor to growth in Utah, and we are the second fastest growing state in the nation, we have an internal birth rate that keeps us always at the top, as well as we still have in migration occurring. So water development is a key issue, particularly long term for Utah.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You ordered additional tests on radioactive waste coming into Utah. What I've heard is this, they've done some testing, so far all the barrels they've looked at are less than half the legal limit. If that persists, are you going to say, "Okay, you can dispose of it"? Or do you have yet another wave of resistance, and what after that? And if so, can you tell us your plan?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the number one, foremost issue is to make sure that we maintain the health, safety, and welfare of the people of Utah. So whatever we bring in at Clive and the Energy Solutions, we need to make sure that it's disposed of properly, to maintain the health and safety of the population.

Secondly, they are a permitted site, and the determination for the classification of waste, depleted uranium, et cetera, really falls under the federal government auspices that's been given to the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They make the determination. So they are shipping product to us. We will, in fact, step up inspections. We are doing that now to make sure that what material we're getting really does fall in the classification of low level class A waste. And the inspection process is important.

But we're also making sure that the disposal of the material meets the federal guidelines so that we, again, maintain safety, health issues for the people of Utah at that depository out at Clive. So I think we're doing good things to protect the health and safety of the people of Utah.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Now, if I understand, you're inspecting, first. Okay, if the inspections turn out that it is all low level class A waste, then you're going to say, "Ah ha, we have something else, and that is we're going to take another look at your disposal. We've got, what I heard was maybe the inspection will be done in sprint, if it is, and if it's all low level class A, you've still got another wave of resistance coming on.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it's a multi-faceted approach, Rod, and again, our own division of radiation control, and our radiation control board are putting standards in place as far as, "This is what's acceptable," for example, for depleted uranium. It's kind of a newer issue. We've had depleted uranium out there in the past, but it's kind of caught the attention of the public right now. The NRC has said it's class A waste. Just last March. We've debated the issue, and on a 3 1 vote they said it's class A waste. So we can't not take it. They're sending it to us, it's a federal mandate, they're a permitted repository for depleted uranium.

So what we can say is, "Okay, if it's coming," and we're working to mitigate that, by the way, until we get federal standards in place, and our own state standards in place, and with the agreement that I arranged orally we're now reducing to writing to having a written agreement that we can memorialize, but we want to make sure that as it's stored, it's stored safely. And we can store depleted uranium safely. It's not a matter of, can you do it? The question is, should it be done at Clive? That may be an issue. But we want to make sure that whatever the standards are, and we're taking steps with the permitting process to make sure that the permit is changed and modified so that Energy Solutions has to follow a pattern of storage that we believe is safe. Then, if the federal folks, the NRC, says, "Well, we think the standards should be this much," and if they are more strict then Energy Solutions has to, in fact, go to the more strict regulation if that's more than the state regulation. And we're making them post a bond to ensure that that will, in fact, happen.

Rod Decker, KUTV-2: New, tougher regulations for storage. New, tougher state regulations for storage are coming.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Tougher regulations for depleted uranium, because we believe that where it gets hotter over time, that requires new, enhanced storage issues, and enhanced inspections to make sure that we are confident. And I am pretty confident, but I want the people of Utah to be confident that what's happening out there at Clive is appropriate.

Rod Decker, KUTV-2: Tougher inspections, tougher storage, then do they, do you just let them do it? Or do you have yet something else coming on?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we're working with the, again, the NRC to see if there ought to be another review of depleted uranium. Because it does get hotter over time, although it takes 40 to 50,000 years to get there, which is a long time, where it would exceed the class A level. Should that, in fact, be reclassified as something else, other than just class A waste, again the discussion was last March, they said, "No, we think it still is class A waste," we think they ought to take another look at that and decide if, in fact, maybe depleted uranium ought to be put into a different classification because of the fact that it does get hotter over time. Albeit 50,000 years out.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, a related question on radioactive waste disposal. Energy Solutions would like the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to change its rules on downblending, on blending somewhat higher levels of radioactive waste with what they're currently allowed to accept so that it's all diluted to class A level. Again, right now that's not allowed under NRC rules, they're hoping that the NRC will make new rules, and in the process avoid state regulation of that process. Is that something that the state should be able to weigh in on as it happens?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Not only should they weigh in, but we are weighing in. And we've taken the position, particularly until there are specific guidelines and understandings of process, of a blending of radioactive material that sometimes can claw higher levels, hotter waste, that could be classified as B, or could be classified as C, we're concerned about that blending process, where it comes out labeled as a classification A, and therefore we're taking it. So we've taken the position, because the regulations are really silent on it, that until that's clarified, that we ought not to be taking it. Again, it's kind of a new, emerging issue, and it's something that we're going to be weighing in with the national, or the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and trying to get guidelines and specificity and clarity on this particular issue. We've taken the position, until it happens it ought not to be allowed to come into Clive.

DAN BAMMES: We need a new topic, here.

MAX ROTH, FOX 13: And I was going to move on to a different topic. There's been a lot of focus on the Sheldon Killpack, the senate majority leader, and the charges of DUI. Less focus on the issue that he was with lobbyists doing what he was doing on that night when he got the DUI. What does that tell you about a cozy relationship between one of the state's most powerful politicians and lobbyists who are paid to sway his opinion?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't know if it tells us a lot. Clearly the personal tragedy here is significant and real, and I have talked to Senator Killpack, and I'm sure he's as disappointed as anybody about his lack of living up to his own personal standards. We have free association in this country, and I would never tell anybody who you could associate with or not. But again, I think elected officials are held to a higher standard. They ought not to have the appearance of somehow undue influence by lobbyists or business groups, or any special group out there. We ought to be perceived to be approachable by anybody and everybody, willing to listen and decipher what direction we should go on policy. So there is that element of too cozy a relationship with maybe lobbyists. I know some of the people, I think, were involved, and again, I think they were friends of many legislators, and it's not just legislators, but friends to, your group of friends expands beyond different borders. So I wouldn't read too much into that. I do expect that we'll see some discussion regarding that, and I expect that we're going to see some ethics reform as we come into the session starting Monday. So I think you'll see some things, we'll try to address some of these in some ways.

RICH PIATT, KSL-TV: Governor, what do you think of some of the ethics reforms proposals that are coming out of the House of Representatives? They've got a Constitutional amendment that they're proposing that would include campaign finance reform, which is something that you've stated that you don't support. Would you support at least talking about or looking at some of this package of bills that they're talking about?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, most all of the issues that have been presented by different parties, including the legislature as far as what we call ethics reform, I actually do support. And I think there's a need to have campaign finance reform. I just have simply said there ought not to be campaign donation limits, because of free speech issues, and the trend that we have of turning elected office, particularly big time politics, over to only the rich and famous. That's my view of the world. That doesn't mean we don't have campaign finance reform. I, for example, think it ought to be instantaneous disclosure. I think it is much more valuable piece of information to the general public to know who is contributing to my campaign so they can analyze you know the why, "Why does that group support Gary?" And try to analyze whether they support me or not, as opposed to whether they've given me five or $10,000. Again, I look forward to a healthy discussion on all these ethics reform issues, and I expect and will call upon the legislature to in fact address those issues in the upcoming legislative session. I think it's healthy to have the discussion.

RICH PIATT, KSL-TV: With regards to the relationship between lobbyists and lawmakers, again, the relationships that Senator Killpack had with some of these lobbyists, some people say is troubling. But how would you legislate that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think that's hard to legislate. Are we hanging out too much, Rich? I mean you might have an agenda, and I don't want to tell you who you can hang out with or who your friends and associates can be. We all have confidants and people we trust. That's big brother's intrusion too much. What I would much rather prefer is gift bans, you know, instantaneous disclosure when they receive some kind of donation, that people know. I think we've put the onus on the lobbyists to disclose campaign donations, as well as gift donations, when the legislators themselves ought to be reporting it. So I think that's a more open and transparent way to do it. And I think it avoids some of the potential conflicts, and probably, if I've got to disclose it, I say, "Guess what, I got money from Rich Piatt," maybe I'd be a little less reluctant to take it. If I think somehow it's going to, you know, reflect on me negatively. Not that it would, Rich. But that's the point, is it ought to be transparent. We've got to do everything we can to endear confidence with the general public, with our elected officials. And I think openness and transparency are really the watch words.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Mayor Corroon wants your job. What are you going to tell the people of Utah as to why they should vote for you and not him?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you know, it's way early to talk about campaign strategy, Rod. Peter is a good friend of mine, I think he's a respected public servant, and a good man. We will differ, I'm a Republican, he's a Democrat. We'll differ in how we approach things, our vision for the future, and the principles that we will espouse to get from here to there. But there's plenty of time for that on the campaign trail. Right now I'm having to concentrate on governing the state of Utah, getting through this legislative session, dealing with a very difficult budget, and doing what we can to protect education and grow the economy. And my focus is really going to be laser like on those things at the appropriate time, I expect that will be after the legislative session, we have time to announce, "Okay, we're going to kick off the campaign, and do what we need to do to get re elected."

DAN BAMMES, KUER: During this Governor, you could take one campaign issue away from Mr. Corroon if you were to support legislation that would protect same sex couples from housing and employment discrimination. It's happened in Salt Lake County and Salt Lake City. Should it happen state wide?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't think so. Again, I support Salt Lake City doing what Salt Lake City did, because I'm a local control guy. I think government closest to the people is best, it represents the people better, it's more effective and more efficient, and is held much more accountable. So every community can make those determinations for itself. The state doesn't have to be big brother and tell everybody how to manage their own back yards. I think that's a wrong way to go.

MAX ROTH, FOX 13: You're from Orem. Will you support Orem doing the same thing?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: If Orem wanted to do that, and they had a debate with the city council and mayor, I expect that Orem could do what they feel is representative of their community.

MAX ROTH, FOX 13: Would you vote for it if you were on the city council?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Depends on what the ordinance is. You know, as soon as they present the ordinance, I'll see what it is, and then, Max, I'll tell you what my position would be on how I would vote."

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, there's no shortage of issues that the reporting press corps would like to bring forth, but we are out of time. And so at this time I'd like to thank you for your participation today. A reminder that a copy of this news conference is available online for your viewing, including transcripts from past news conferences. Visit us at KUED.org for directions on how you can access those transcripts and past programs. Until the next time we gather in February, thank you. For KUED, good evening.

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