April 24, 2014

"I think it's important on a number of levels for us to have an accountability process for the schools and the successes they're having or the lack thereof, and so I support a school grading program." -Governor Herbert

KUED presents "The Governor's Monthly News Conference," an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert. This program was recorded earlier.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Good morning, Governor. Thanks for joining us. You have an opening statement for us.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I do. Before I take questions, let me just tell you a little bit about our trip to Mexico. As you know, my focus has been on growing the economy. I think Utah has great opportunity to expand business by going international. We've had some international trades but this last one to Mexico here two weeks ago was just remarkable in its success.

We took 41 different Utah businesses with us. They made connections. We see opportunity for our business expansion to take place. In fact, we had three companies, Converus, doTERRA, and Space Monkey, that actually entered into contracts on our trip to Mexico.

I think two things are happening. One, the location, we can see the advantages. We're almost in the same time zone with most of Mexico and millions of people down there that are potential customers. They're also stabilizing their government. There's more transparency. There's less crime than we've had in the past and I think there is opportunity now for our businesses to invest and expand their market share into Mexico. We were received extremely well.

As you know, we have a significant Hispanic population in Utah; about 16% of our population here are Hispanic. Seventy-five percent of those consider Mexico their country of origin and so there's some natural ties and an affinity there. We have 5000 businesses in Utah which are run by Hispanic owners and entrepreneurs so, again, I think the timing is just good for us in Mexico and the results of this trade mission, I think, were remarkable.

Last but not least, another opportunity we had down there was to learn from Mexico, particularly Mexico City, on environmental issues. As you know, Mexico at one time was listed as the dirtiest city, air quality-wise, in the world and so we had an opportunity to meet with those folks. I had Ted Wilson there with me, my lead environmentalist, and we had a good dialog and discussion about what worked in Mexico and what they did to, in fact, improve the air quality there. So we're learning--we're going to continue to discuss it. Some things that worked in Mexico wouldn't work probably in Utah. Some things that they've proposed maybe will work better in Utah and so we're going to continue with that discussion and dialog and see what we can do to help us clean up the air quality here on the Wasatch Front. So in all measurable areas, I think we had a great success on our trade mission to Mexico.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, as you acknowledge, closer business ties and you pursued more successful ties between Utah and Mexico. Does it force you or encourage you to reconsider in any fashion the notion of immigration, which is a pressing concern to Utah and western states?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think we need to adhere to the rule of law, you know. I just think that's just the basic foundation on which our society is built. And so we have to adhere to the rule of law. Does that mean we need to have immigration reform? Absolutely. I think that we do need to have Washington step up and find some kind of immigration reform to deal with particularly the gate. It's not just the fence, you know, having people hop the fence. We talk in terms of a tall fence but we ought to have a wide gate that works and functions where the people who want to come here and can contribute to our society but would like to go home. So I'm hopeful that there's going to be something will come together in Washington, D.C.

That being said, the best thing we could do and the best thing that Mexico could do for immigration reform is to improve their economy. I mean, we don't have a problem with Canada and people to the north. They've got a good economy and people have jobs and opportunity. It's only south of our border where we have problems. The disparity is so great that people will take great risk to life and limb to come to this country. And I think we can all appreciate that. It's a great country, great opportunity. Why not come here?

So as their economy improves and I think it will grow now with this stability in our government, starting back with Vicente Fox, President Calderón and now President Peña, and their cabinet and their congress, I think you're going to find these reforms are working and it's going to be more inviting for a business to grow and expand there. The private sector's growing, they have wealthy people now. And as that happens, they'll be less likely for people to enter our country illegally because they will have opportunity at home.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: So was that the object of your trade mission there, is to kind of deal with the immigration reform 'cause it seems like, what you're talking about, is having Utah companies expand to Mexico and take the jobs with them, which usually you're talking about expanding here in Utah.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's a two-way street. It's not one versus the other. Their customers there, you know, 90% of the customers worldwide live outside of America. And there's opportunity whether it's China, whether it's the U.K., whether it's Israel, to expand our products and have more customers for our businesses in Utah. And we've signed contracts in Mexico that's going to do just that.

But we also had a meeting with a company by the name of Grupo Bimbo, which is the largest baking company in the world. I didn't know them until I met them in Mexico but you would know them here as Sara Lee. You'd know them as one of our popular bread purchases called "Grandma Sycamore's" and other products that they have. They're in 19 countries, have 126,000 employees and sell about 10,000 products worldwide. But their banking interests they have are now going to be shifted to a local bank here in Utah where they've been doing banking outside of our state even with their products in state. So that will--hire more people here in Utah on a company that originates from Mexico City.

So it works both ways. Their economy will improve, that's a good thing for Mexico. Our economy's going to improve and expand which means we'll hire more people here, which is good for Utah. I mean, it's the proverbial win-win, right? Go ahead.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Near Utah's border with Nevada, there was almost violence over cattle. Have you become involved? Have you talked to the BLM? Have you talked to the congressional delegation? Do you have a program or a plan to keep the violence out of Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I have talked to the BLM and their leadership there and I've sent letters saying that I know there's a problem in Nevada and that problem needs to stay in Nevada and resolve in Nevada. What I don't want is having that problem exported to Utah as some kind of relief valve. And so I've expressed that to the BLM. They've responded. I've met with them personally and I think we're on agreement in that regard. Our congressional delegation has also now weighed in on that issue also. You know, I don't see the Nevada problem coming to Utah. I would hope it doesn't and we will certainly keep our eye on what's going on there.

GLEN MILLS, ABC-4: Can you talk about Congressman Bishop is involved and I believe the two of you have spoken, worked together on land rights issues. Can you expound on those, please?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, Congressman Bishop has a proposal that says that we have public lands here that ought to be optimized in how we utilize it. The Charter of the BLM was, in fact, multiple use of the public land and so that means farming, ranching, that means outdoor recreation, tourism and travel types of things and it also means natural resource development.

There are areas that we all agree ought to be protected and there are vistas and venues that ought not to be developed. Some areas ought to be developed and we can do them in responsible ways, in environmentally sensitive ways, with the new technologies that we have. So his proposal is we ought to have some kind of land exchange where we say--and to quit the fighting and say, "This is off-limits for development, this is on-limits for development." And so I do support that land exchange approach which I think has merit and actually can resolve some of the conflict and actually get some things done, including creating wilderness.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: But, Governor, do you have a concern that that kind of sentiment could spread to Utah in the sense that we've got this anti-federal government sentiment here that could be taken to this kind of extreme. This kind of thing, you know, this guy just doesn't want to pay his fees, et cetera--

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You're talking about Mr. Bundy now?

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Right, Mr. Bundy, excuse me. What you're talking about when you talk about the federal government intrusion is something completely different. Are you concerned that this will start sort of a trend among people in Utah to sort of misinterpret perhaps what you're talking about, about federal government intrusion, as opposed to--

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you're exactly right. The Clive Bundy issue is completely separate from any discussion we have on public lands here in Utah. I understand frustration, you know, and I think local people feel frustrated because their concerns of the management of the public land in their own back yard, sometimes those concerns they feel like they're falling upon deaf ears and they want to be a part of that discussion, dialog, please have understanding of what it does to my cows, what it does to my ranch, my water rights, my ability to graze and use under the Taylor Grazing Act my rights to the public land, access to natural resource development that creates jobs in rural Utah, for example.

So let's not be confused with what's taking place with Mr. Bundy in Nevada with our public land debate that's taking place. I know we go through cycles. You can go back in Utah's history and find, for lack of a better term, sagebrush rebellions that have occurred over time. In fact, if you went back through history, I think we had three democrat governors that have kind of been involved in sagebrush rebellions, the most notable one, Governor Matheson, who wrote about it in his book and talked about the frustration he felt with this overreach of the federal government and their non-response to the concerns of the local people and the state.

So we go through those cycles. I hope we can find a way to resolve the issue so that we don't have to have the fighting and arguing that's going on. But I think we all have the same goals to protect those areas which need protection but we now need to have the ability to develop those resources that we have here, particularly energy, in responsible ways. And we've been working very diligently. This republican governor with a democrat president and administration, to see if we can, in fact, find that appropriate balanced approach to utilization of our public lands.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: But is the Bundy situation--is he hurting the efforts in the West to reclaim some of these public lands? I'm thinking today of the racist statements we're hearing, coming from him. A lot of people are dismissing him as, you know, not someone to be listened to and yet that's what the nation is seeing when they see the public lands issue right now is Cliven Bundy. Is that hurting your efforts?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, Clive Bundy should not be the face for the public land issues in Utah. And I don't know about all the issues in Nevada and the frustration and the issues he's facing with. I don't know, I've heard about the racist comments, which I think are based in ignorance and are certainly despicable and offensive, if they, in fact, are true. But let's not have him become the face of the challenge we have of management of public lands, whether that be federal management of the public lands or state management of the public lands.

As we've said before, and I'll say it again, Utah is a public land state and we will always be a public land state. The only question on the table before us is who's going to manage it? Is it going to be the federal government or the state? I expect it'll be some combination of both, by the way, but the state ought to have a larger say in what happens in our own back yard. We understand our ranges. We understand the fire problems out there that have been kind of ignored in the management by the federal government.

There is $11 billion backlog of maintenance on our BLM so we can do better and we ought to be a part of the solution as a state in finding ways to do better and, clearly, there is some momentum to that concept as we have other surrounding states now that are saying, "Yeah, what Utah says." We are a part of that. There's some momentum and I think there's an opportunity for us to find some resolution and find a better way to manage our public lands for the good of the public at large, for all of America, and certainly for the benefit of Utah.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, I wonder if you are concerned about what you might be taking on if you, in fact, win this fight. The federal government charges $1.35 a head per month for cows grazing on federal land. They take a huge loss by charging that. States that do the same thing tend to charge a whole lot more. And so if Utah took this on, are you going to lose a whole lot of money like the federal government or are you going to charge a whole lot more and get into this problem?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I think the revenue and expenses actually almost balance out if you actually look at the numbers, what we send to Washington, D.C., and what we get back. And I believe that in taking over if it's revenue neutral which I think it pretty well will be, is that we'll find better efficiencies, we're closer to the problem, we can find better ways to do things, better ways to manage, probably have better cooperation from those who are out utilizing the land. And so I think we'll have a net gain, in fact, in that process.

We lose a lot just because of red tape and inefficiencies. I mean, the studies of opening up roads and canyons that take five years to approve, you know, our rejection of our sage-grouse plan which protects, you know, 95% of the sage-grouse and their habitat and yet we can't get an approval from the federal government. Our horse issue, my gosh, you know, our horses that were supposed to--in the area of BLM down in Iron County were supposed to accommodate 300 horses, now have got nearly 3000 and they're doubling every three to four years. Terrible management of the wild horses and burros, and that's Utah.

And then you look at Nevada, which has 10,000. I mean, it's just, again, we can see areas that we can criticize. I'm not here to criticize. I'm actually here to find solutions. I think there is a better way to do things that gives us a better outcome whether it's for the animals out there, whether it's for our farmers and ranchers protecting and maximize our water rights and utilization at an optimal level our public lands. The states need to have a more and greater opportunity to have a say in that management.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Do you have advice for the federal government? Do they need to uphold the law? Do they need to enforce those court orders? Or do they need to back off and stay out of the way of the militias?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, as I said earlier, you know, we should adhere to the rule of law. Otherwise, we have anarchy and chaos, so the laws need to be enforced and followed. If we don't like the laws, then we ought to take steps to change the law. We have a democratic republic which allows us opportunities to modify and change laws and improve.

I understand the frustrations that people feel, but any time you've got Americans lined up on one side and other Americans on the other side, with guns pointed at each other, we got a problem and I find that disappointing and so I say to all sides of that issue in Nevada, you know, count ten, bite your lip, and back down, and let's come back at it in another way, and see if we can't resolve the issues as we should under the rule of law, and find the proverbial win-win.

The law needs to be upheld and again, I think that can happen. And I think there's actually, in my view, which is as an outsider, so I'm reluctant to be too critical here, but I think there's blame to go around on both sides of this issue that caused it to escalate.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, your education deputy, Tami Pyfer, is proposing a new system for evaluating and grading Utah's public schools, one that would replace the letter grade system that's now part of state law. I'm sure she's discussed this with you. What's your view of the subject?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I support school grading. Yeah, I think it's important on a number of levels for us to have an accountability process for the schools and the successes they're having or the lack thereof, and so I support a school grading program. But I think that the proposal Tami's come up with and I've asked her to look at what can we do that will be inclusive with what the Legislature's already done, that will be compatible, complementary, and give us better information.

Having a single letter grade is not probably broad enough to really understand is the school doing well in history, are they doing well in math, are they doing well in international studies? How are we doing in language arts? You know, it's a "C" grade but what does that mean? Whereas, if we had four or five different grades or benchmarks, we can say, "Hey, they're scoring at a 95% level in English, they're doing 70% in math, they're doing poorly in international studies," you know.

And then parents and students can understand what's going on in schools and make decisions based on that and, just as importantly and maybe even more importantly, administrators, those who are given the responsibility to manage the school, can say, "Hey, we're doing great in history, we're doing lousy in math. We're getting an 'A' here and a 'D' here and, even though we have a composite, maybe that's a 'C-', that doesn't tell us enough, but having an 'A' here, a 'D' here, a 'C' here, a 'B+' here, allows us to know better where we need to take corrective action."

So this is going to be more comprehensive and it'll be easier to understand and people that need the information, parents and students and administrators, will get better information to make their decisions.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Governor, this week the Attorney General's Office issued yet another report on the Attorney General, this time focusing on Mark Shurtleff and his dealings with a man that the Office was prosecuting, Marc Jenson. This is yet another--I don't know if you've had a chance to get briefed on or actually read the report but this is yet, you know, another sort of, you know, deep dive into what went on in that office. I'm wondering if you're feeling--if you could kind of renew your comment on what you feel about something needing to be done about that. Yes, what's past is past. Do we need to keep revisiting this issue? Should something official be done? What are your feelings about what went on in that office and what it says about the Attorney General's Office back then and now, the way it's operated?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah. Well, I think the investigation needs to be completed and sometimes we'll have, I guess, a debate on what completion means, but if there's information out there that's yet to come forward, if there's allegations that are going to be vetted and maybe charges given, let it come.

There is a process designed for us to ferret that out and find out the truth. And, you know, I pass no judgment on, you know, Attorney General, former Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, but there's questions that need to be answered and I expect those will be in appropriate ways. And, you know, I think everybody should understand that anybody, whether it's Shurtleff or Swallow or anybody else associated with the office, they're innocent until there's proof of guilt.

But that process should go through. Again, we're trying to restore trust in the Attorney General's Office. That's the ultimate goal. We want it to function properly and restore their public trust. I think Attorney General Sean Reyes is doing that very well but the process isn't completed. We'll have to let it play its way out and hopefully sooner rather than later.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Has this made you more careful about where you may take some of your money within your campaign?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I don't know that's making me more careful, I've always been kind of careful. But I think it gives pause for anybody to say, "Let's make sure that we don't take monies in ways that conflict." Again, I think the Attorney General's Office because they are the top cop and they are prosecutors of crime, they more than any other elected office probably have to be more careful because there are people that they are going maybe prosecute and challenge as far as the legality of things that they're doing and you wouldn't want to be in a position where they've given us money and people would say, "Ah, you've backed off because they bought your pardon or bought your willingness to look another way or not be as harsh." And I think that's kind of unique to the Attorney General's Office.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: There were certain problematic industries that Attorney General Reyes identified and said he is going stay away from donors who are from those industries. Do you have those industries in mind for yourself? Are there groups--will you take money from payday lenders who want to donate to your campaign?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes. You know, I think every politician, when they take their donations, want to make sure that whoever I take it from should line up with my philosophy. That's why people give money. I like this person's philosophy, I like what they stand for, their principles and values, therefore I give them money. There should not--if you don't line up, for example, I don't take tobacco money. I have not taken money from Energy Solutions. I think Energy Solutions is a good corporate neighbor, by the way, but it's just a kind of a lightning rod for controversy that I just don't need. And so I'm involved in anti-tobacco, anti-alcohol campaigns and so it would be hypocritical I think for me to take money from them, even though some of them like what I do in the other 90% of my arena. So I think every politician ought to be careful in who they take money from and it ought to be people that you line up with and support and they support your philosophy.

GLEN MILLS ABC-4: ((cross talking)) Governor, where you are with selling the Healthy Utah plan to local lawmakers?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Excuse me, say that again.

GLEN MILLS ABC-4: Can you give us an update on where you are with selling the Healthy Utah plan to local lawmakers?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, I've briefed the leadership in the Senate and, on a separate occasion, I've briefed the leadership in the House on my trip to Washington, D.C., and meeting with Secretary Sebelius and her leadership team as well as meeting with the White House and their leadership team. And so we're in a process that's going to take us probably a couple of months to get to where we need to be.

I'm negotiating with the Obama administration as an alternative to Medicaid. I think it makes a lot of common sense, protects the taxpayer, as well as provide service for those who we call "the working poor" and those who are impoverished to help them have access to good quality healthcare. I think it makes good sense. But I work in a parallel track of the Legislature to bring them along, answer questions they've got. They've got some suggestions were given to me that we'll take back to the Obama administration as we go through this negotiating process. My hope is to have this negotiation over with and an agreement by the end of the summer.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Do we need a new usury law then, talking about payday lenders? Do we need a cap on consumer lending limits, funding--or interest rates?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I think it's a healthy discussion and a debate to have. I am kind of a free market guy. I believe that government makes more mistakes than they get right when they try to make decisions and tip the scales and put their finger on what's right or what's wrong. And so government just needs to be careful. I think the marketplace works exceedingly well but I expect in light of what's taken place in the Attorney General's Office and what's come up with their intensive lobbying efforts, the fact that we are of the high end of the usury in Utah, I think it'll be a discussion or debate and I think that's healthy. I won't presuppose the outcome of that discussion or debate.

RYAN CUNNINGHAM, KCPW: Going back full circle to Mexico, you mentioned air quality reforms. You were discussing Mexico City. Were there specific measures that officials there discussed that might work for Utah? And what did you think of those?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, they recognize and they use the phrase, "We're a motorized city," and you know, we're obviously motorized here in Salt Lake Valley, too, and our biggest problem now with air quality is near 60% of the pollution during inversion time is coming out of tailpipes so we share that in common. They tried to have every other day you could drive your car. They have about seven million people that come into the city every day so it's a--they had nine million people to start with and then seven million coming in so it's a challenge with tailpipes. But it didn't work. People had enough automobiles and they would--the traffic didn't dissipate. They did move their power plant but they got federal government help. It cost them billions of dollars to do that. Now if we can get billions of dollars from our federal government, we can move our refineries too so we're learning. We're going experiment on a lot of different ways to clean up the air.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, on that note, we've exhausted our time for this edition of "The Governor's Monthly News Conference."

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It can't be over already.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Thanks for joining us. Good evening.

This has been "The Governor's Monthly News Conference." An archive of transcripts, video, and audio is available online. Please visit kued.org. Thanks for joining us.

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