July 2011

"We have online educational opportunities, now, new technology that we're going to be able to have reinforced what's being done in the classroom, outside of the classroom." -Governor Herbert

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning, everyone.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Good morning, Governor, thanks for joining us today. This week you announced the restructuring, downsizing of the Office of Ethnic Affairs in Utah. On the same day, coincidentally, a national report finds that the test scores of childhood Latinos in Utah lags substantially behind the test scores of their white counterparts. Now, these may be disparate events, but tied together they look at a concerning state of affairs for ethnic communities in Utah. How do you see them related? How do you see a path to the future?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the timing is more coincidental, but what we're trying to do in Utah is deliberate. My Education Excellence Commission recognized the education gap that we have with our minority students, and in fact we worked with the legislature to get seven and a half million dollars of early intervention money to help, in fact, improve the education gap for those children that are at risk. So there's at least an acknowledgement and an understanding that there needs to be some work done. Yesterday when we created this multi cultural commission, one of the charges I gave to them, in fact, was to address that issue and see what we could do as a state, in fact, to narrow that gap.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: The Republican State Convention met, you addressed them, they met last Saturday, and they voted to repeal HB 116, the guest worker statute. Do you anticipate They say they're going to fight. They're going to repeal it. Do you anticipate a fight? Do you stand for HB 116, or are you looking to compromise?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I supported House Bill 116, believing it was a step in the right direction. I still believe it was a step in the right direction, and I've heard from proponents and opponents of House Bill 116 on the illegal immigration issue. Again, we've approached it with a more broad approach than, say, other states have done, and we've received some positive acknowledgement of that around the country as a more comprehensive approach. That being said, what I have found in the debate, the discussion which I believe is healthy, by the way is that the two sides are not that far apart. There is a recognition that one, House Bill 116 is a beginning, it was not an end. We have two years, over two years before it takes effect. And so there's opportunities to improve it. A lot would like to improve it, clarify it, maybe make it better. Some want to repeal it and start over. I understand those differences. But the commonality that they all share is, one, secure the borders, have a common sense immigration policy here in this country, have businesses be held accountable, and recognize that the frustration's being generated because of the lack of activity by the federal government. Those are areas that they share in common. I believe that the discussion will go on, and that those sides will actually come together.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: It sounds as if you're waiting to see, that you're not going to take a position of, "116 is a Utah solution and I'm standing by it," nor are you taking a position, "We need to change it." You're going to wait and see how things develop.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I've had people approach me on all sides of the issue saying we want to have continued dialogue and discussion. I expect that will continue up until our next legislative session, and there may be some legislation proffered, amendments to clarify, maybe some will try to repeal. I don't know what that's going to be going down the road. But I do believe there's going to be ongoing, robust discussion from all sides of the issue, and see how we can, at least in Utah, address the issue, absent the federal government, which ought to be addressing the issue.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You mentioned business and jobs, and how we need to control who works here. Merrill Cook has a petition, another petition, county wide, that would push businesses, would take away licenses if they knowingly hire illegals without doing a background check, without doing an electronic background check. Do you support that petition?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I haven't read the petition or know all the details, but I support the concept that businesses need to be held accountable if they break the law by knowingly hire illegal aliens. I don't think that's the way the system should work, and they are the ones that, in doing so, inducing people, enticing them to come and break a law themselves. They're rewarding bad behavior. I think that's bad policy. So I think we need to work with the business community, in fact, to correct that. We have an E verify program that I support. We have now a U verify program that I think is worthy of consideration, too, as part of the House Bill 116 approach, and business certainly has a responsibility to hire those who are legal in this country.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, there are some lawmakers who are pushing for a special session to consider a version of the E verify bill that was recently upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court, would require all businesses to submit all employees through E verify. They say this is something we can all agree on, let's do it in a special session. That will tighten up our laws. Do you agree, will you call a special session for that bill?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I haven't seen the proposal so it's a little bit early for me to say whether I would or would not. I'd like to see the proposal. Again, I'm a supporter of E verify, I think that is a step in the right direction, although I don't believe it's perfect. I think there are some issues there that need to be worked out, at least better understood by the business community. I think the business community also needs some time to transition. If you, in fact, happen to be a large company that's got maybe, unbeknownst to you, a number of illegals, you need to have a chance to purge through that and transition, I think, to make sure that we don't have a negative impact on the economy. That being the case, again, I think these issues typically warrant a full session, not just a special session. But I'm more than happy to discuss with whoever's got that proposal coming forward, and I would then discuss that with the legislative leadership and see what their feelings are on that.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: The legislature did pass a law of enforcement of E verify, but you excluded the sanctions in there. There were no penalties. So in essence you had a law with no penalties or sanctions.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I didn't exclude it, the legislature creates the legislation, as you know, John. And they, in fact, had no penalties in there. In fact, the sponsor of the bill referred to it as a voluntary compliance bill because of the fact there was no penalties in it. I think we're learning that there needs to be penalties, we need to hold people accountable. There's also, though, the need to have, in fact, working with the federal government when it comes to penalties, because we cannot penalize a business under the current law, say, if you hire somebody illegal and fine you $10,000. We have learned, because of the Arizona law that was upheld by the Supreme Court that law passed in 2007 that we have the ability to take away your business license. Now, that's a state right issue. I support that. I believe that's true. I think that's the way the Constitution was set up. But I'm a little concerned about taking a large company, just say an IBM type company that has 2,000 employees, take away their business license and have 2,000 people out of work. That would have a very significant negative impact on the economy, when it's maybe only a handful of people that maybe need to be fired or jettisoned and replaced. So I'm concerned about how the impact of that implementation would be. But having a penalty, saying for the first offense we'll fine you so many dollars per employee that you've hired illegally, and multiply that up over time, I think it attacks their bottom line and sends a strong message that you cannot with impunity hire illegals knowingly, and yet will not have an overarching negative effect on the economy.

DAN BAMMES, KUER-90.1: Governor, the public lands issues have taken some real twists and turns this year, with the wildlands designation announced in December, now congress has defunded that. And as things have changed, is there now a new opportunity for designation of public lands using the county by county negotiated process that was going on in previous years?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I believe so, and I've spent a lot of time back in Washington, D.C. meeting with Secretary Ken Salazar, and the Department of Interior and his folks, with the BLM, Robert Abbey, and working together to see if we can't, in fact, come together. The fighting's been going on for far too long, in my opinion, with no positive results. Both sides have been paralyzed. And so the wildlands was kind of, again, a shot across the bow. The good news for all of us is that there was some defunding of that by our congressional delegation's help and others in congress, and I filed a lawsuit. It was just improper. They were skirting the Constitution in doing that, and they've withdrawn that proposal, which allows us now, in good faith, to go ahead, as we've demonstrated can be done in Washington County, with other counties coming together and trying to determine what is wilderness and what is not? Allow natural resource development to move ahead, multiple use of the public lands, which is the BLM's charter. They are, under charter, designed to have multiple use of the BLM land, agriculture, outdoor recreation, and natural resource development, amongst others. So I think we have a new opportunity, here. We'll be meeting with the Department of Interior again, here, in the next few weeks. We, in fact, are inviting them to come out and visit with the folks here in Utah once again, and see if we can talk about permitting processes and some of the challenges that we face with the public lands. I think we're making significant headway, and I'm very optimistic that we'll, in fact, be able to balance the responsibility we have to protect our public lands, to be good stewards of the earth, and yet have natural resource and energy development also. They're not incompatible to me.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: I'm sorry. Can we go back to immigration just for a second? I'm just sort of curious. Every speech I go to that talks about immigration, someone says, "The federal government's got this task, they're failing us." The reality is that we do have an immigration enforcement office here in the state of Utah. All these legislative attempts to regulate immigrants keep coming forth at the state level. I'm wondering, as the state's chief executive officer, if you ever dialogue with federal officials, the local immigration enforcement officials, do they ever ask you, "If there's going to be some kind of state legislation, please guide it this way, help us do the job in the meantime"? What kind of dialogue do you have with the federal officials who are, in fact, working in Utah and who are actually doing immigration enforcement?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, my involvement's been mostly in Washington. Again, trying to work with the congressional delegation to make sure that laws are sensible, and for them to, in fact, prod the enforcement aspect of this. We find that there's clearly a negligence when it comes to the enforcement aspects. They are trying to enforce and deport kind of the violent people in our community, those who are felons. The rest they kind of turn a blind eye to. Part of it's just the lack of resources, the lack of ability to do it. So maybe more a lack of ability as opposed to a lack of desire. That's why states have stepped up, starting with Arizona, and now us, with an enforcement mechanism saying you know what, the laws need to be enforced, you're not doing it for whatever reason, we're going to help you. And I think that's actually complementary, and I think we will, in fact, pursue that. We're being challenged in court by the ACLU, but I believe that we'll win in that challenge, that we have a Constitutional law that allows us to help enforce the laws that are on the books currently. That being said, there's more that has to happen. It's not just enforcement only, it is, in fact, making sure that the federal government creates a sensible immigration policy. It's not just a tall fence but it's also a gate that works, that people can come into our country and go back out again. And it's also making sure that the business community understands they have a responsibility to play by the rules, and they ought not to be out there enticing people to break the law by saying, "If you come here we'll give you job," game the system, take advantage of their competitor. So it's a complicated, complex, emotional issue, but I believe Utah is approaching it from the right way, and having, I think, good success. Are we where we want to be? No, not yet. But we're going to continue to work on it and we're going to try to force the federal government to get off the sidelines and get in the game.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: But it doesn't seem like anybody's stepping up to the plate.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: They're all afraid.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Even our delegation complains about it, but nobody, there's never any proposals coming I haven't seen anything from the federal government, from any federal legislator that's an active proposal that's on the table. No one's even trying.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, it's become kind of the third rail of politics. You know, people are afraid to touch it. You don't want to be targeted, you don't want to have somebody angry at you, and so it's a difficult issue to tackle. You don't want to be kind of the Lone Ranger out there leading the fight, and find out that there's nobody with you. I've been to Washington, I've talked with a number of congressmen. I've talked with a number of think tanks, conservative and moderate, who said, "Yeah, we need to address it, but I don't want to get out there quite too soon. If we can get some critical mass, if we can get some people kind of jumping on board, then we can maybe tackle it." Well, we're not that way in Utah. We're not afraid to tackle tough issues. It may be controversial but we're going to lead out and we're going to try to get other people to join with us. I've had contact now with other Governors that are saying, "We like what we see in Utah, we want to learn from you, and we want to start getting engaged ourselves." So maybe we'll find something comes out of our meeting here in July with the National Governors Association. It really is a policy making body that has impact, and I think that that's going to be an issue that the governors are going to more and more want to take up, and maybe we can help lead the charge.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: But Governor, you say that we're not like that in Utah, and yet your own party voted to repeal the package of law, a piece of the package of laws that you pushed forward last session, the guest worker program. They passed a resolution to repeal that, and now they say they're targeting all the lawmakers and executives who supported that. Isn't it a third rail here, as well? Do you feel targeted?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Not at all. I think I'm part of the discussion, the dialogue. But you're referencing, you know, a group of delegates that, by a 94 margin, passed a resolution to replace and repeal. And it was repeal and replace. They say we need to do something, we didn't particularly like this bill. Some of them thought the Constitutional aspects of it got in the way of maybe a good idea of a guest worker. I've already been contacted by others out there that have got other ways they think we can skin that same cat. So I don't think that people are as divided as probably some would like to believe. Certainly the 2.8 million people of Utah, you know, need to be considered and represented, it's not just the few delegates. I think the state is divided kind of down the middle on this issue. And we need to work through that and come together. But we are not one that's taken a powder on it. We are talking about it. We, as controversial as it may be, we're engaged in dialogue and discussion, debate. That's healthy. And we'll find some solutions, I believe, in Utah, that will build some consensus and get more people where we have maybe a majority of the people, hopefully a consensus means over two thirds that will agree to something we're doing in Utah.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: If that's the case, Governor, why didn't you speak out more strongly in favor of this bill that you said you support before the convention?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Man, I've been on the television, I've been on the radio, you've quoted me before. I signed the bill, I had a press conference.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: But when you talked about it before the convention you said, "We'll let the chips fall where they may."

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, of course. That's exactly what's going to happen. As far as me getting out there and saying, "It's got to be this way," I'm not a dictator, I'm a facilitator. I bring people together. We've had healthy discussion and dialogue, and we're going to continue to have that. I'm interested in getting the appropriate outcome. And in Utah we're moving towards that appropriate outcome, yet to maybe be determined in all of its aspects of it, but we're actually engaged in it. And again, I've got friends on both sides of this issue that we're working together on. So I'm very confident, and I'm very comfortable that we're doing things in the right way, here.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, the HB 477, the commission that was meeting to examine that, the government records, just held its last meeting yesterday. And it looks like it's coming out with recommendations that are a whole lot like what we began with before HB 477. What should taxpayers think about all of the rigmarole we went through, all the money that was spent on this issue?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, I think issues come up in the legislature all the time. I've never been one that believed in the original version of 477, that it was going to be some kind of a wholesale change, or that there was a need to have wholesale change. Sometimes you just need to have discussion and dialogue. What has happened with the working group is that people on both sides of that issue have recognized that the other side had some legitimate points to make, and there needed to be some understanding. And they actually have understood each other's positions a little bit better now. I've always believed that there needed to be some clarification, some understanding of the new technology, and some small nuance changes. That appears to be what's coming out of this recommendation, which I haven't been briefed on yet. In fact, looking forward to meeting with Lane Beattie and have him give me a briefing and see where that will lead us to. But I don't know that anybody really believed there was going to be some kind of wholesale change, and particularly after we've had some of the discussions. But there was a lack of understanding on both sides of the issue of the legitimacy of the arguments. That, now, I think, has been reconciled.

JESSICA GAIL, KCPW-FM: Governor, Jackie Biskupski recently stepped down from the legislature, and now there are no gay legislators serving. Do you think this is a step back for the gay community and kind of the progress that has been made recently? And you know, would you like to see more gay people serving in the legislative body?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I encourage everybody to step up and participate, no matter what your political philosophy is, or your sexual orientation means nothing to me personally. If you have something to contribute and something to offer, step up, throw your hat in the ring, and get elected. Again, I think it's good to have a good cross section of the community, and I think we try to do that in politics, and I think that tends to happen. But the pendulum swings back and forth, and sometimes you have more conservative, and sometimes you'll have more liberals. That's just kind of the political process. If you've got something to offer, throw your hat in the ring, file for election, and run and get elected.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: If I could, this week there were three archaeologists from the, that were terminated. They happened to have been involved in some pretty controversial issues both with the Front Runner stations, and oil and gas development, some water development. Were any of those issues related to their termination? And what message does it send to state employees who might find themselves in difficult situations? Is your office going to support them in those tough, controversial situations?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you say that they were involved in some controversial issues. I think maybe it is with some people's perspective. It certainly wasn't in mine. I valued the counsel and advice that we received from the archaeologists. You're probably referring to the Galena property and the Front Runner station there in Draper. In fact, their advice I followed, and it helped me in putting together the conservation easement that I signed into law, there. So it has nothing to do with that at all. It has to do only with the reduction in force caused because of budget cuts. You know, it's lost on maybe some that we've had a reduction in force of over 1,000 people in the last year, and these happened to be three others that are going to be reduced because of the lack of budgetary abilities. We are trying in Utah to be very fiscally prudent, we do more with less, we are trying to find ways to be more efficient. But we clearly still have archaeologists on board, and we're reducing from three to one. So it's not like we're eliminating that entirely. We also have archaeologists with UDOT, that works with UDOT, we have an archaeologist that works with the Department of Natural Resources, we have one that's involved with our history division, and we have one that's involved in our public lands policy coordinating office. So that's an additional four right there. So this idea that somehow we're going to get away from having archaeologists to help us for these important areas that are important to me and to the state of Utah to preserve and understand, and cooperate with, is false. The fact that these people were let go has nothing to do with anything they've ever done, any academia research and work they're involved with. It only has to do with direction that we got from the legislature in the budget cutting process.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Governor, as we're reducing state spending, we've spent a lot of money building schools in recent years, but is the state moving toward a situation where technology, internet connections, software, are going to start replacing brick and mortar schools in taking up some more of that burden? GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't know that it's going to replace it in Utah, because our population is growing so rapidly that it would be hard for us to think in terms of reducing our brick and mortar schools. There's clearly some demographic shifts that occur, some of our counties, in fact, are not growing very much, particularly with young people, and so there's probably not as big of a need to expand. In fact, we might have some consolidation that takes place. Along the Wasatch Front, where we're having rapid growth, we're going to continue to build more brick and mortar. But just like anything in the business world, where technology, in fact, finds better ways to do things, where we have better outcomes, and, in fact, technology sometimes replaces labor, but provides opportunities for labor to increase in other areas, and other arenas. Maybe requiring more education, more training. That's going to happen with education, too. In our state of Utah we have now 900 services on line. We've created a new web page that's going to, I believe, receive some national recognition. Again, we want to find better ways to do things. It would be foolish for us not. Well, the same thing is true with education. We have online educational opportunities, now, new technology that we're going to be able to have reinforced what's being done in the classroom, outside of the classroom. I look at Western Governors University, started here in Utah with the Governor Leavitt administration. Now in all 50 states, having significant success, not using one dollar of taxpayers' money, I might, mind you, add, and having great success with people getting a good education, that gives them skills to go out and compete in the marketplace. So it's not all one way. There are multiple ways out there, and we ought to look at technology as an advantage and an opportunity to improve outcomes for people.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, you've got some big changes coming up with the liquor commission, here, in the state. There's two positions, I'm not sure if you're ready to fill those yet, they're coming up vacant. There's also a retirement imminent from the executive director, I understand. And your current chairman, Sam Granato, is interested in that spot. Are you considering appointing Sam Granato to run the DABC?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the process is that, in fact I'm actually interviewing people for those upcoming vacant slots on the ABC commission, and we'll go through the process, as we always do, and people apply, and we'll interview them and I'll have to make some decisions. I expect we'll get two good people to be put on that board. I hear, mainly from the media, that the executive director's thinking of stepping down. He's not talked to me about that. There's probably some rumblings out there, and we'll see what happens. But that being the case, if, in fact, he wants to retire and takes that step, I would like to have the board in place so that it's not a lame duck board that actually makes the decision on who that director replacement should be. And Sam, and anybody else ought to throw their hat in the ring and apply, and we'll go through that process, and they will go through the process, and a determination will be made. So I'm not championing anybody, I'm not opposing anybody, come one, come all, and we'll see who's the best fit for the job.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, the National Governors are coming to Utah, and at the same time Governors Huntsman and Romney are coming to Utah. Utah's at the center of a whole lot right now. How are you acting in the middle of all that? What are you going to say to Governor Huntsman, Governor Romney, and to this governors association?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, part of that question is maybe one of the toughest ones I've got today. You know, Utah is at the forefront. I'm so proud of our state. We are leaders in about every category, and we have an opportunity to showcase Utah hosting the National Governors Association. So that's going to be a great opportunity for us July 15th, starting. I'm proud of Governor Romney. Again, I supported him in the past, I've encouraged him to run again for president. My partner, Governor Jon Huntsman, brings a lot to the table, he's a very credible candidate, and his understanding of international affairs, for example, is just where he probably is without peer. So I'm grateful that I've got two good friends running for president of the United States, and I support them both. I think they're good men, and this is good for Utah on many levels, and good for the country. So good luck to both of them.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, on that note we've run out of our allotted time. Thank you for your time today. Reminder that a transcript and online viewing of every edition of the Governor's News Conference is available at kued.org. Join us there, and join us next month for the next edition of the Governor's Monthly News Conference. Good day.

Return to home page