August 25, 2011 (---Herbert 2nd year---)

"...I don't believe supporting a voucher system and supporting public education are mutually exclusive ideas. I've reached across the aisle with a lot of stakeholders to see what we can do to improve education. And I believe that if we're going to have long term sustained economic growth in this state, a skilled labor force is essential."
-Gov. Herbert

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED7: Good morning, Governor. Governor, this week a report was released by the Utah chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union indicating that there are many rural counties in the state that are failing to comply with the spirit of representation for indigent criminal defendants by underfunding county public defender operations. Now, Utah's one of only two states in the nation that does not provide a state funding mechanism for public defenders in rural counties. Should we be doing this? Do you feel we're falling short in the process of criminal defense?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well that's just come out, Ken, and so I haven't had a chance to analyze it and see the veracity of what their statements are that they're making. Certainly everybody has a right to a good public defense, and if you can't afford a counselor on your own, then the state should provide one for you. When I was a county commissioner in Utah County, we worked with the public defender's office. We've done it in a couple of different ways, where we actually hired, and had a government funded on payroll attorneys to do the public defense. We've also contracted with private organizations and gave them a contract to be the public defender. There's more than one way, I think, to do it. We need to make sure that people are getting adequate defense. And if that's a function of money, that's something we need to analyze and look at. I feel comfortable, at least in the past, that the counties taking that lead role have done a good job, and it's been adequate. If there's some deficiencies in the system, let's take a look at it and see if we can improve it.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: Governor, there has been a shakeup at the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, you recently demanded and received the resignation of Executive Director Dennis Kellen. What can you tell the public about what's going on here? What is he accused of? Do you think it runs deeper, and that there will be more people who have to be terminated as a result of this investigation?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, as you know, I've released a public statement on that and I'm going to let that statement stand. I will just reiterate that I've lost confidence in the leadership there, for a variety of reasons. It warrants an investigation and an audit. And so in that vein, I asked for the resignation and received it of the director, and we've put an acting director in place, in Francine Giani. I believe that she will, in fact, look into what needs to be looked into, that the audit will, in fact, give us information, and once we have that information, rather than speculation, we'll then react accordingly.

BRIAN CARLSON, ABC4: You mentioned how you found out there was inappropriate behavior going on there?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We had some information that came to us by sources that said they thought there were some improprieties potentially taking place. The legislature had already started an audit on some other issues that had to do with some of our packaging agency issue up in Eden, and so there was kind of already some red flags, and as we looked into it we thought that there was a warranted, at least a need for an audit, and again, a need for, a call for resignation.

BRIAN CARLSON, ABC4: What type of red flags?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the fact that there was potential end arounds as far as our procurement policy. That things were not being done according to the spirit and the statute. And so it warrants an investigation, and we'll do that.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Taking the long view on this, does the state really need to be in the liquor business? Is that something, where there's an opportunity for reform?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well that's probably been an ongoing discussion for many, many years. Should the state be in the liquor business? That's the policy we have in place, that's what we've done for generations. I expect that that question will be raised in this upcoming legislative session. Should we privatize? I think that's a worthwhile discussion and we'll see where that discussion goes. I think for Utah's history, as far as Utah being in the alcohol business, I think they've done a good job of it. Can we find a better way? Can we make improvements? We've made some modifications with our alcohol laws over the last two or three years, and I think that's part of the evolution, as far as what we ought to maybe be doing in the future. So let's see what comes up in the upcoming legislative session. I think that question will be asked.

JOSH LOFTIN, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, this contract with Flexpack went on for three years, four or five years, maybe. How did it go on so long, and does the accountability stop with just Dennis Kellen, or should it go all the way up to you?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think that's the point of the investigation, and the point of the audit. Who did know, and did somebody just turn a blind eye to what was taking place? I think that's a question that I would like to have answered too. So there's some issues that will come up out of this. I think as far as realignment and who reports to whom, and some suggestions that I may have when the report and the audit is done. But again, I don't want to speculate, let's get the audit done, let's do the investigation, then we'll have facts and then we can make decisions.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: Governor, a different topic. Some of your Republican colleagues in state houses across the country, and Republicans in Congress, think, despite the diminishing revenues, or tight revenues today, that now is a good time to cut taxes. Do you share their view that now would be a good time to cut taxes? And if so, where could you target those cuts?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think each individual state needs to find their own way. What we do in Utah and works in Utah may not work in Minnesota, may not work in Kansas or California. Again, states have different demographics and different circumstances that they find themselves in today. We're not in the same circumstance that California is, where they're running a $30 billion deficit. We actually have surplus funds. I'm a believer that you create a friendly environment so that the economy can grow. As the economy grows you create more wealth, more jobs, and consequently more tax revenue. Reagan proved that during his time in office, where revenues nearly doubled, as he cut taxes. John F. Kennedy had the same attitude, and it happened on his watch when they cut taxes. Will that work everywhere? I'm not here to tell other states how they should do it. I do note that in Utah, where we have cut taxes, where we've made a business friendly environment, that we have weathered the storm through the great recession better than most states. Our economy is turning around. We're creating jobs at twice the national average. We've created a business friendly environment with tax reform and regulation reform. I would suggest other states could follow our lead and learn something.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: So are you saying that another tax cut in Utah is in order? Would you favor another tax cut in Utah? And if so, where?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No, I'm saying it's a balancing act based on what your current circumstances are. Some states, the taxes are too high. If I was in California, where the upper tax rate is 10.5 percent, and you've lost nearly a million jobs over the last ten years, a tax cut would be in order. If you are in a state that has a low tax rate, it may be, if your diminished revenues, and could be that maybe tax reform would be in place. For example, I think we have a number of loopholes that ought to be looked at. I'm a level playing field- -

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: In Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm not talking about Utah, I'm talking about across the country. I don't plan to have any kind of a tax increase in Utah. We're doing well with the system that we have in place now.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: Are you against tax cuts in Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm not against tax cuts, but I'm not sure that tax cuts are warranted right now. I think we've found the right equilibrium, with the right balance, where we have competitive tax rates, and with our regulation reform You've got to have some kind of tax rate to produce the revenue. Zero won't work, and 10's too high. We're at 5, we're probably, at least in our competitive area, here, in the intermountain west, where we have Wyoming, Nevada, with zero, and others that have higher rates than us, we're in a good, competitive advantage. So I think we have found the right balance point in Utah.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: No tax cut, no tax hike in Utah; is what you're saying?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think where we're at right now is serving us very well.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: Are there areas of the budget that could be cut or looked at, as far as waste, at this point, in your opinion?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Say that again, I'm sorry.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: Is there an opportunity to look at waste in the state budget still?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Oh, sure.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: What kinds of things are you looking at there, or under your view right now?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, there's always ways to find efficiencies. Again, most of the efficiencies we're finding here recently have been with new technology. We are, in fact, in Utah, doing more with less. Technology advantage, we have over 900 plus, now, services on line. We don't have to be quite as labor intensive, and we can do more things on line. So technology really is finding us ways to provide better services and save money. Let's just use one example with Medicaid. Again, we have now taken a step, we've gotten a waiver, it took us about a year to do it by the way, which is another issue in itself but we got a waiver from the federal government to go paperless with Medicaid. Better service to the recipients, better communication, and it saves the state of Utah $6.3 million. If that happened nationwide, by the way, it's about a billion dollars. So that's an example of going paperless, using technology, better services, and saving the taxpayers' dollars.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Governor, on the national scene, this was such a dispiriting summer for politics, looking at the debt limit debate and everything that's going on. Are the American people just fed up that there's a lack of ability to work politically across party lines? I'm wondering if you could comment on what your political philosophy is in terms of where compromise should happen, and where is it that you disagree with the grassroots of your party, and have agreed with the other side?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, let me just say that the old political adage, you know, in referencing politics, if you like sausage don't watch how they make it. And that's sometimes true with democracy in our republic. You know, it sometimes is a messy process. The important thing is, do we get the right outcomes? And I believe, you know, generally speaking, we do get the right outcomes. Sometimes we have spats and fights within the party, within the family, with ourselves, with others. That's part of the process. That being said, compromise is a part of good, successful politics. You go back to the founding of our country, you had some of the brightest people, I think everybody would agree, that founded our country, and got together, had very strong opinions. But eventually they compromised with those opinions and principles, and came up with what we call now the United States Constitution. Aren't we all glad that they came together and had some compromise within them? If they'd all stand firm, I'm not going to give an inch, we wouldn't have the Constitution today, and a country that we all know and love.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: What's your view of

MAX ROTH, FOX13: But in terms of the question about where you have compromised, and where you agree, where you've agreed with the other side of the political aisle rather than with your grassroots?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Sure. Again, I think there's a number of instances. Again, I would like to emphasize principles as opposed to labels. Sometimes the labels get in the way of who's king of the hill. If we talk about the principles, we have, I think, a better opportunity to become united. But I've been a very strong supporter, for example, of public education. Some in my party view public education as something less than what can be done in the education arena. I have, in fact, said we need to fund the growth and see what we can do more with public education. Now, I say that as a proud supporter of vouchers. But I don't believe supporting a voucher system and supporting public education are mutually exclusive ideas. I've reached across the aisle with a lot of stakeholders to see what we can do to improve education. And I believe that if we're going to have long term sustained economic growth in this state, a skilled labor force is essential. So that's an area. We fought here in the state on public lands. Again, I'm not opposed to wilderness, I just believe it has to be, in fact, defined under the law and under the Constitution by Congress. I don't like end arounds. I don't like people that are saying, "This is wilderness," when we've got, you know, a dozen roads through it. Because by definition wilderness is, in fact, roadless. But we're working together, with my balanced resource council, to bring people together on all sides of the aisle, and all sides of the issue. So there's just a couple of examples. I'm sure there's many more we could talk about, but for the sake of time we probably out to quit.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Governor, the relocation of the prison calls for relocation for private development. Where is the public's interest? And I noticed in the amendments of the last special session that you were kind of excluded from the involvement in that. If it's going to cost the taxpayers money, to move that, with that consideration, you have the power to veto at this point.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Actually, I don't think there's any ability to move ahead without the legislative approval, and the funding that goes with, in fact, a move. The legislature controls the purse strings, as you know, John. I have appointments to four slots on that committee, so we've put in process, in place, at least, a process where if somebody has an idea, particularly with the state prison, that they think would be in the benefit of the public, they can bring that forward, have that vetted, discussed, and see if they can get a recommendation to go forward. If they don't get a recommendation, it's pretty well stymied. But there's a lot that goes into moving a prison. I think clearly most of us would say if we could take that prison and move it someplace else, that would be a good thing, because right there at the point of the mountain, where the counties, Utah County and Salt Lake County are coming together, a higher and better use than a prison probably would be warranted. But there's a cost associated with it. Can we, in fact, do it without having some kind of undue burden on the taxpayer? We all know that going forward, that prison's going to have to have some remodeling. There's going to have to be some investment in the prison to keep it up to date. So we do we remodel in place, or do we find a relocation and build a new facility from the ground up? Those are part of the discussions I think will happen. We'll see what happens, or at least there's a mechanism in place now for people if they've got an idea that would make it better for the taxpayers and for the people of Utah, bring it forward, the committee will hear you out.

REPORTER: Governor

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Is it going to be an undue burden on

GOVERNOR HERBERT: If it's an undue burden, they won't get a recommendation that's favorable. They'll say, "Leave it the way it is."

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: But what will you do with it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, if it's not in the best interests of the taxpayers and the people of Utah, why do it? Just leave it in place just the way it is.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: No, but will you veto anything if it comes forth?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: If it's not in the best interests of the people of Utah, absolutely.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Okay.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, the Obama administration recently issued a new directive on immigration policy, targeting just those criminal aliens who are here. Is that, some have called that amnesty, some have said it's going to allow those who are here illegally to remain here. But is that amnesty? Do you support that new policy?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it's certainly de facto amnesty, and I'm surprised that President Obama took the position he did. I worry that that maybe is more about politics than principle. The reason states have been involved, and the reason there's frustration across this great land, is because of the lack of enforcement of existing laws by the federal government. The federal government, in fact, not stepping up to the plate and fulfilling their responsibilities under the Constitution. In other words, states are saying, "If you're not going to do it, if you're not going to enforce the law, then we will." We have this situation that's growing worse and more dire, and is impacting businesses, society, our education, in so many different ways, and there's a cost associated with that. So for practical purposes, I think the government is saying we can't round up everybody, we don't have the money and the resources, so they've been probably just targeting those who are the greatest offenders in society, and deporting them. But now, to make it as if it were an official policy just says to the marketplace, "You know, we're only going to prosecute these few over here, and the rest of you come on in. It's welcome time, the door mat has welcome on it, and you're welcome to in, in spite of breaking the law." I think that's the wrong message to send, I think that is not the right way to deal with the issue.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: How is that different than HB 116, though? Where you're actually granting some legal recognition to people who are here?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Those are people who are already here, and we have under a state right, a 10th Amendment right, to say who has the right to work here. We have no ability to deport people, we have no ability to naturalize them, we have people, because of the lackadaisical approach that the federal government has taken, people within our borders. We're just saying if you're here we want to know who you are, we want to make sure you're paying your taxes, be fingerprinted, have a background check, and saying to you that we know who you are and you can work here, we can give you permission to work with a work permit if you qualify. Now, again, this is not a perfect solution, and part of the emphasis with 116 was to get the federal government off the sidelines and in the game. They needed to take a more proactive approach and do what they're supposed to do. 116 is not a perfect solution, it was just a start.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Governor, it strikes me that the rationale that you just gave to federal immigration, or against that policy that the Obama administration announced, it's really exactly the same policy that Utah has regarding polygamy, which is that we know it exists, it's practiced, it's a widespread practice in Utah, and yet we don't' force it unless it gets to a certain level of criminality. So why is it that when Utah does something like that it's not hypocritical, but when the federal government does, it is.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm not saying it isn't hypocritical. Again, it's a matter of managing the taxpayers' dollars as best you can. Whether we have the ability, practically, to raise enough revenue to, in fact, round up people and enforce that particular law, the anti polygamy law, is questionable. There doesn't seem a big surge of people and public demand to raise their taxes and to spend money there. It's a matter of prioritization. I don't think any of us condone anybody that's breaking the law, in whatever form, that is, whether it's a polygamy statute or knocking over the 7 Eleven. We need to enforce the laws, and do the best job that we can. The attorney general has to prioritize his budget, and I expect that's a question you'd ask Mark Shurtleff.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: Governor, this month the redistricting committee's going to finish up its work. We're expecting the results within the next few weeks or so. At the same time the Democrats are taking their tour of southern Utah, trying to build support for a southern Utah district with the eye toward keeping like interests the same. Where do you stand on this? Do you like the pizza slice? Do you like the donut? Do you see the value of the argument that they're making, that southern Utah interests are different than northern Utah interests, and they deserve their own district?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I like the fact that the legislature, I think, is doing an extremely good job of getting public input, and having discussion and debate and dialogue on all different approaches and different points of view. I think that's a healthy thing. As we all know, under the Constitution the legislature is tasked with that redistricting requirement. So as we renew censuses every ten years, you know, they have to come back and draw those lines once again. That's not an easy thing to do. I know the pressures they're under by members of their own body that are concerned about their own districts being changed and modified, and it's not just a Republican thing or a Democrat thing. It's bipartisan in their angst. The demographics are changing in Utah, and it warrants us to have some modification.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: But do you see the value in the argument that southern Utah interests are much different than northern Utah interests, and they deserve their own congressional district?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I see the argument there, as far as why that could be an intellectually honest argument, the common interests of rural Utah. I also see the intellectually honest argument of we need to have a balanced approach where, in fact, any congressman is required to look at not only the rural parts of Utah, but the urban parts of Utah, and come up with a balanced approach, an ability to have our congressional delegation united. So I think you can argue both sides of the issue, and I think persuasively on both ways. I don't envy the legislature in their task of coming up with the right, correct answer. Whatever they do, some people will disagree. There's no way to please everybody on this issue. But I expect the legislature will do it with public input, they'll try to be as far and balanced in their approach, and come up with something that they can defend, and the public will say, you know what, I think they did a pretty darn good job.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: What do you think about that? Where do you stand on it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm going to support the legislature.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: Governor, another political question.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: So no veto, Governor, if they do something you don't like? Is that what you're

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Well, if they did something really stupid.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL5: Well, define that.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't think they will. I think they're going to come up with something that's going to be fair, and everybody will say, you know what? It's a challenging issue, and they're going to come up with something that's defensible on their part, and fair for Republicans, Democrats, Independents, and the people of Utah.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: Governor, a political question, what do you think of Rick Perry?

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: It sounds like you're defending the balanced approach, the let's have each district mixed rural and

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm defending the legislature in their Constitutional right, and I think they're going to do it right and get public input and they're going to come up with something that's right. I don't know what that's going to be.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: You don't have a preference?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think both. Again, I can argue on both sides of the equation. I'm glad I'm not having to do it. I trust the legislature.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: What do you think of Rick Perry?

GOVERNOR HERBERT:You know, I know Rick. Rick's a good guy, he's our senior governor in the nation, he's been in office for ten years. He's got a good track record in Texas as far as creating jobs. Though I think they've been a little heavy on the government expansion of jobs in Texas, as opposed to Utah, where our government jobs are actually going down, and the private sector is growing. He's a force to be reckoned with, and he certainly is going to be a player in presidential politics.

BRIAN MULLAHY, KUTV2: Will he be a good president?

GOVERNOR HERBERT:I think he'll be a good president. Again, I don't know that I'm going to vote for Rick as opposed to Mitt Romney or a Jon Huntsman, but you know, Rick would do an excellent job, he's certainly got the experience and background. A good guy.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED7: Governor, I would be remiss if I didn't comment, since the last time we were able to meet with you, you've been to Afghanistan, you've visited with Utah troops that are on the ground. You've also had connections throughout your administration to the consequence and cost of war, you've honored fallen soldiers from our national guard units. What about the returning warrior? I know you came back from that travel saying there's something more that we can do. What about the returning warrior, and returning them to society?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: That's a great question. Again, I can tell you, as anybody would be, if you went into the battle front, in Iraq or Afghanistan, you are immediately impressed with the quality of our soldier. We have the best of the best, men and women out there on the front lines protecting our liberties and freedoms and trying to give opportunity for a better life in a foreign land. In very difficult circumstances. Their courage, their perseverance, their dedication, their patriotism is outstanding. I have one of the honors of my responsibility as Governor, and one of the more difficult challenges, to go to funerals and memorial services for the fallen soldier. And you have an appreciation for the sacrifice of not only the soldier, but their families and their friends that are left behind as they've lost a loved one. I can tell you that we, as a public, we as a state, as a nation, cannot say thank you enough. And we need to make sure that we have a welcome mat open for them when they return. It's a challenge to kind of reintegrate into society from a combat zone, and from military service. We need to make sure that they have jobs. I was just with a group this morning called Veterans Employment Coalition, which is designed to empower the private sector, to call upon the private sector to look for a veteran, find an opportunity for a veteran who's developed significant skills, technology, leadership, team work, decision making. They have made decisions under the most strenuous circumstances that will probably pale in comparison to the decisions they'd have to make in business. So hire a vet. Make sure they have an opportunity to come back and assimilate back in society and find a job for themselves to pay their bills, and to provide for their families. And I'm really passionate about that, and I think there's going to be an effort, a ground swell, I hope, here in Utah, to provide job opportunities for the returning vet.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED7: We only have about 60 seconds left. Is there one veteran you will never forget?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, there's so many of them.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED7: A young face from Afghanistan that maybe reached out to you in a special way?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'll tell you this. One of the things that I learned, you know, the sacrifice. In Afghanistan there's 49 countries that are working together, a broad coalition. As I was at the hospital meeting with some of the wounded soldiers, I went to this one room, and the people were there from Georgia, the country of Georgia, by Turkey and part of the old Soviet Union. And we couldn't communicate because I didn't speak what they spoke, and they didn't speak English. But I told them through an interpreter that I appreciated their service and their sacrifice, what they were doing. And they said back to me this it's an honor to serve alongside the Americans. I'm here to tell you our soldiers are changing not only hearts and minds in Iraq and Afghanistan, but outside of those borders with the service they render, alongside foreign soldiers.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED7: Governor, thank you.

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