October 27, 2011

"We have to prioritize the amounts of money we have. We have demands for education, education growth, which is unique to Utah." -Governor Herbert

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Good morning. Thanks for joining us, Governor. The Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control appears to be in for a major restructuring. After a very critical legislative audit and the steps your administration's taken to change its leadership, what form do you think that restructuring should take as you move ahead?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it's a little unclear yet what we'll end up with, but what we're certain about is this is what happens when there's no oversight and accountability that's taking place. They've not been a part of my cabinet, the change was made during the Cal Rampton administration with this five member commission oversight. I believe we all thought internal controls would be adequate with the director, the deputy director, and the finance director. 

That's proven not to be the case. And so when we found out there were problems, we were decisive, we were swift, we brought in an acting director to, in fact, review what was taking place. The audit has given us pause. There's a reason for concern. And we'll work with the legislature to make sure that accountability and oversight is put into place. The form of that is yet to be determined, but we will, I'm sure, have some change this upcoming legislative session.

CHRIS VANOCUR, 4ABC: Governor, it's unlike me to ask a question about the DABC, but I'll give it a shot. Last month in this setting you expressed concern that the DABC had closed its September 15th meeting. Since then we've learned there's a video tape of that closed meeting. I've asked three times, asked the DABC, to release that video tape, and we haven't gotten it yet. Do you think that video tape should be released?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I have no problem with it being released. I don't know what's on it, by the way, but I don't believe the meeting should have been closed. I know that the ABC folks had had legal counsel that told them it was appropriate to close it. That's for them to decide. But I think it would be very appropriate to release the video.

CHRIS VANOCUR, 4ABC: Governor, I'm not sure about this. Do you have the authority to order them to release that video tape?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't believe that I do. Again, we pushed the envelope just a little bit when we put Francine Giani over that organization, because there is a question, in fact the statutes probably are silent on that. That's part of the problem we're observing here, is the lack of oversight and accountability. So we're going to change that with legislative action. Whether it becomes a direct respondent to the Governor's office as a cabinet member, or whether it should be going through the Department of Commerce, I think is yet to be decided. But that's at least some of the options out there. The video should be released. 

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, you said that the problems occurred because there was a lack of oversight in place. There were several audits that led up to the most recent one, that all found some measure of problem at the DABC, and yet there was no action taken. And does the buck stop at the Governor's office? Why did it take so long for anything to be done?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I can't answer for previous administrations. I wasn't there. The last audit that I know about was in 2002. So it's been a long time, and I think by and large the ABC Department has handled itself pretty well. It's only in recent months that we've seen there's been some problems there. So again, I can't account for what's happened beforehand, I can only account for what, on my watch, we found out there was a problem, we suspected there was a problem, we asked for resignations, we got it. We've been decisive and forthright in saying we need to make some changes, and put enhanced accountability and oversight controls in place.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, you mentioned the Department of Commerce. Is folding the DABC into the Department of Commerce a possibility? There's a lot of talk about consolidating departments on the hill right now. Would that be one of them? 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I certainly think that's on the table. Whether that's the right answer to the question, I'm not certain. That we're going to take some time to be methodical and review it. It's more important to do it right than to do it quick. I think we've got control measures in place. We're going to have some new appointments out there that will take place with a new director. There's a search going on right now in that vein. So I think in the interim right now we're okay, but we need to have a long term fix for this, and that's going to take some legislative action.

JOSH LOFTIN, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, would you support changing the makeup of the commission, either to make it The audit recommended everything from a full time commission, such as the tax commission, to basically a licensing commission, which is what the commerce department has in many of their divisions.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think there are many things on the table. I wouldn't want to presuppose what the right answer is without kind of reviewing the options. I clearly, part of the problem is the five member commission, which is part time, had not the oversight capability that they needed to have in light of what we've discovered. Again, I think that we assumed, the commission assumed, that the director was doing his part, that the deputy director was doing his part, and most importantly, that the financial director, who should be reviewing, you know, bids and procurement and how money is being spent, is doing his part. And that's obviously failed. So we are going to change legislation, and have more oversight and more accountability to the DABC.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: What's the process? How are you going- - You've got a lot of possibilities. How are you going to decide which are the serious ones, which is the one, and get a bill before the legislature by January?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we have the audit, at least as a blueprint to work from, to see where the problems are and what the audit shows us. We also have the state auditor which will also do his own audit, and dovetail that with the legislative audit. Then we will work with legislators, whether it be a Senator John Valentine, who's been involved with the alcohol issues over the past two or three sessions, but other legislators, and we will work together and say, "What is the best mechanism, what is the best way to have oversight of our liquor sales here in Utah?

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Will you be personally sitting with Senator Valentine? Will Ms. Giani be sitting with Senator Valentine? How's it going to work so that you get a bill that you can support and they like?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm sure it will be a collaborative effort and I will certainly be at the table.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: There's the perennial critique of the commission that there haven't been drinkers on the commission. It's essentially made up of people who don't believe in the product that they're overseeing. Do you think that that's part of the problem, that you have a group of people who, as a part of their normal lives, never walk into the businesses that they're overseeing?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well I think it's important we have a broad based approach where people who have different perspectives and different backgrounds when it comes to the regulation of alcohol. And we do have that. We have, I think, three and two that are the makeup now, three non drinkers, and two that are social drinkers. I don't know that you have to be or don't have to be to make good wise decisions and judgments. And I don't think that's what the audit's revealing. The audit's revealing just a problem with procurement, of doing things that were skirting the law in the procurement process, and not accounting for money, and not having the oversight that is necessary for a $300 million a year business.

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: Governor, you were just talking about the problem of oversight and accountability at DABC. Last month you expressed grave concerns about a land deal involving a former UTA board member. You've expressed concerns about high salaries there. Would you, do you think there should be changes at the top at UTA?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, that's why they have a board. People need to understand that's a special service district. That's created by the people, by election, by vote. They have a board that has a responsibility to have oversight of salaries and the contracts and what they're doing at the UTA. And I expect those board members to be held accountable for that. I think there's been an attempt to be more open and transparent with this current leadership team, as opposed to past leadership teams. And I think that's the way it should be. So I'm at least cautiously optimistic that they're on the right road, going in the right direction. And I would hope that that board will take that responsibility seriously, and make sure that they're open and transparent and responsive to the public's demands.

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: And you've communicated that to your, you have a board appointee yourself.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We have. And talked to the chair also, and he agrees with that. At least he's told me that. And I think that's taking place.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Governor, you recently took a trip to San Juan County, and met with the local government officials down there. One of the things that they talked to you about as a priority for them was keeping state parks funded, in particular the Edge of the Cedars Museum in Blanding. Is that something you're going to be able to deliver for southeastern Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I hope we're able to take a reasonable and rational approach on our state parks. We have 43 of them, they've been called and made state parks for purposes. They're not all just profit centers. Sometimes it has to do with our heritage. You know, our territorial state house down in Fillmore is probably not a profit center, but it's something that, because of our heritage, is worthwhile keeping, maintaining. Same thing down in San Juan with Edge of the Cedars. Again, a repository for many ancient Indian artifacts. They have to be stored someplace. And it does attract people to that area that not only look through the museum there and look at the artifacts as a repository, it also tracks other people who go to restaurants and hotels and motels. So for the people in San Juan County and Grand County and surrounding areas, it's an important aspect of the economy. That being said, we have budget crunched. It's a difficult time still. We have to prioritize the amounts of money we have. We have demands for education, education growth, which is unique to Utah. We have federal mandates like Medicaid, that could cost $100 million in our next budget session just to fulfill the mandate that comes to us from Washington, D.C. for Medicaid. So dollars will not be plentiful. We will have some growth money, and we're going to have to prioritize very carefully and find efficiencies where we can. I'm hopeful we'll be able to maintain our state parks, but certainly they're going to be part of the mix as we prioritize the spending of the taxpayers' dollars.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: About a year ago Bank of America made a settlement with Utah for $957,000 to pay off people who had been mistreated on mortgages. As near as I can find out, no one knows where that money is. No- - It hasn't come, no one knows who has it, no one knows who's getting the interest on it, no one knows when it's going to arrive. Do you know the answer to any of those questions? If not, do you know who does, and where the answers can be found?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Where the answers can be found, I believe, is the Department of Consumer Protection. I know with the Countrywide and Bank of America and the problems there with the litigation as per the court, they've had to consolidate who is going to answer for that, and we have a place in California. I don't know all the details but I know our Department of Consumer Protection can help people access the right people in California to find out "Where is my share of the settlement coming from?"

ROD DECKER, KUTV: I talked to the Department of Consumer Affairs, they say, "We will not talk to you." They sent me to a group named Rust in California. I have phoned them seven or eight times to no effect. I mean I haven't talked to anybody who said anything. They simply aren't saying. Is there somewhere, is there some- - Can you say somebody who will say, "Here's where the money is, here's what's happening, and here's about the settlements"?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know why they're being so mean to you, Rod. (laughter) What I will do is I will look into it and find out and respond back to you later today and see if there's a contact person that can give you some answers to your questions. Clearly the consumers need to have some advocacy for that. And if they're entitled to some moneys from the court settlement, they ought to be able to get that without going through so many hoops.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, your office has expressed concern about a new toll proposed on I-15 through Arizona. Did that come as a surprise to you? And what can you actually do about another state's decision?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it did come as a surprise. I guess I'm not surprised, I know Arizona's had some financial difficulties, and know, unfortunately for them, last year they sold their state capitol building in an effort to balance their budget, which shows the state of the financial affairs of Arizona. But the I-15 corridor through Arizona is part of the I- 15 interstate, and the interstate program. It was paid by taxpayers' dollars. I think it would be very bad policy to take a little stretch there that goes through Arizona and suddenly cause a toll situation there. I find most egregious the fact that the request to our federal highway system is to not only put a toll on that little 29 mile stretch, but also exempt any Arizona drivers on it. Everybody else will pay the toll, but if you're from Arizona you will not have to pay the toll. We pay taxes into the system, we get money back from the federal highway system to help maintain our interstate highway systems and other roads, and that's what Arizona should do. It would be bad policy, and I would oppose it 100 percent to have a toll put on that stretch of I-15.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: If it goes forward, would you consider taxing Arizona drivers as they through the state?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, it's not a tit for tat thing, it's a matter of developing good policy. And it's something the federal government should be involved with, if they want to toll I-15 and the rest of the interstates that would be a federal issue, not a state issue. I think it's just bad policy and is a reflection of Arizona's just trying to find dollars wherever they can because their budget is so upside down.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Governor, good policy means that we look at the impact negative and positive. Three years ago a law was passed that says Utah should look at the impact of illegal immigration. You looked at the negative but no one looked at the benefits as called for in the law. Has your office done anything about that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We've not done anything as far as doing any kind of an analysis. Again, I think there are national organizations that are looking at it, and I think there are negative comments that come out in the research, and positive comments that come out. I would note in the Mark Shurtleff conference yesterday we had people talk about the positive aspects of immigration.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: That wasn't your office, though. 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying others are doing it. And certainly I'm paying attention to what's going on. Again, I don't know that anybody's opposed to immigration. What people are opposed to is illegal immigration. I think immigration is a part of our culture here in America.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: But the law said that they should look at the impact, the positive impact of illegal immigration.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We all, I think, understand that the negative impact of illegal immigration on society and the cost it is to us as taxpayers. We also recognize there's some benefit from workers who go out and do work, whether it be in the hospitality industry, in construction, whether they do it in agriculture. So I'm not the one that's going to say there's not some benefit. But overall we need to get our hands on immigration and make sure that the immigration we have that takes place in America is legal, that it's appropriate. We are a rule of law state, and to just ignore one segment because we think there's some benefit out there and ignore the rule of law is bad policy.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Last month, Governor, we were here and we talked about the redistricting process as it was wrapping up. You had said one of your top priorities was to have an urban and rural mix in each of the four districts. We ended up with a fourth district that is almost entirely urban, very small segment of rural compared especially to the other three districts. Are you satisfied with what the legislature did? I guess you signed the bill, so you must be satisfied to some degree.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, redistricting is a complicated and emotional process. And certainly politics have bearing on what takes place out there. I think having an urban rural mix was a good policy. We have 70 percent of our landmass that is publicly owned property. Less than 25 percent of our landmass is privately owned property. And so it impacts our economy, it impacts our ability to develop our natural resources, our energy, funding of education.

So it's important to the people that the people on the Wasatch Front have something to say about what takes place in rural Utah also, and clearly what happens on urbanized, and the Wasatch Front of Utah, is impacting on rural Utah. So the mix, I think, was an important principle. The fourth district, which you're referring to, does have a rural mix with it. It's not only the rural in Utah County, but down in Juab County and Sanpete County. If I was drawing the map maybe I'd have made it a little bigger than that.

But I'm certain if we gave 104 legislators maps, we'd get 104 different configurations. That's just the way the process works. But at the end of the day I think what we have is they certainly followed the law, I think it's reasonable, it's rational, and at the end of the day I would like to encourage people, it's not the lines on a map that pick our elected officials. It's people that show up at the ballot box and vote. And we can see exceptions to the rule as far as the Republican versus Democrat mix throughout the country, where those who are the minority still won in different districts because they were the best candidate. So people will make their decisions ultimately, it won't be these lines on a map. 

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, you signed that bill very quickly. There was a group of reform advocates that had planned to protest for the day after you signed the bill, and had to cancel. Was that intentional? Did you want to stop all of the debate and just settle this issue once and for all by signing the bill?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it had been a long time in gestation, so there's probably some reason to do it in a timely fashion. But again, I had the information on Monday, I think we signed it on Thursday. I did not know that there was anybody that was coming to my office, or any kind of a protest, as you've said. I certainly know that there were people out there that were unhappy with it, that didn't like the process, and maybe some that didn't like the outcome. That was the more important thing to me, was what is the outcome? Do we have something that's reasonable and rational and doesn't have an urban rural mix. And I think the outcome is defensible.

The process, you know, was inartful, I think, in some ways, but I didn't know there was somebody coming in. So I had four days to look at it, that's pretty adequate for one piece of legislation.

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: Governor, your election is coming up, you've begun raising money, I know you have a gala coming up. The issue of limits came up last year. What's your position on campaign contribution limits? Do you think there should be any in the state of Utah? As you know we're one of the few states that have no limits at all. 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: My position is basically the same that it's been in the past. I think more important than campaign limits, which is a limitation on free speech and the ability for people to contribute and advocate for some candidate, is transparency, disclosure of the donations. So the public can weigh and consider, you know, who's supporting whom, and whether that causes them to have a pause on whether they should support that candidate. I think that's much more important.

The courts seem to be coming down on the side of speech, the Supreme Court has said speech equals money, and again, I don't know that there's any perfect answer out there, by the way. I have a unique situation in that it's kind of like ground hog day for me. I just got through doing this, and now I'm turning around and doing it again. And unfortunately for me, I'm not a rich person. I still do the shopping on Saturdays like you do, John, and I take coupons to make sure I get the best bang for my buck. And so I've got to raise up to about $3 million to run a state wide race again, and so I appreciate the fact that people are stepping up, saying, "Hey, we support what you're doing, and we're going to give you some money to make sure your message gets out, because you've got to run a campaign in 2012."

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: In the interest of further transparency, which you think is valuable, would you support requiring Utah candidates to list occupation and employer, along with the other information that's currently, as far as I know it's name, date, amount, but there's no employer or occupation data which would help the voters understand who the people are.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't have any problem with having people list what their occupation is and what their background is. That probably does help understand who is supporting whom, the business community, you know, and what that kind of business is. So I don't have a problem with that. If that's a modification we need to make or could make in the law, I would support that.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Governor, you mentioned you're not a rich person. The Congressional budget office just released a study that says that the top 1 percent of Americans since 1979 grew their income by 275 percent annually, while the middle income Americans grew by 40 percent. And you've seen this occupy Wall Street movement, occupy Salt Lake. Is there a point to be made about that kind of income disparity, or do those rich folks deserve that much more money than you and other middle class Americans? 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm a free market person, so I believe in the free market. It's what's made America great. We've had a growing economy, which has elevated everybody's quality of life. And so the rich get richer, but it also elevates those at the bottom of the ladder also. At least that's how the system is supposed to work. I do note that in Utah is listed as the one where the gap is the narrowest, that we're more homogenous here in Utah, in our income levels, and so I think that's good for us. We don't have the extreme wealthy and the extreme poor. We're more kind of all gathered around the middle class, which is indicative of what we've been recognized as the best quality of life in America, I think.

That being said, we need to provide economic opportunity for everybody. The best thing I can do as Governor is focus on jobs and creating economic opportunity for everybody to become wealthy, to improve their status in life, to grow their economic standing. And that's working in Utah. I can tell you, it is a great day for Utah. We're growing at three times the national average. We're the third fastest growing economy in America right now. We have a balanced budget. We have a AAA bond rating. We have money in the rainy day fund. We've been recognized as the best quality of life in America. So our approach in creating economic opportunity in Utah is working, and literally we're the envy of most of the United States of America.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: But doesn't that disparity indicate that corporations and other wealthy individuals are not, don't have your same vision in mind of raising up the middle class? Is that a legitimate issue and question? 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes, I think it is. My vision is obviously the correct vision, and I wish everybody would get on board with me. (laughter) But people make mistakes. Again, I think there's criticism to be leveled at Wall Street and CEOs who have broken the law and have enriched themselves at the expense of others. Bernie Madoff comes to mind. I mean there's criticism that's legitimate out there. There's criticism about the dysfunctionality of Washington, D.C. for heaven's sake. I understand the frustration of the "occupy" people. We all kind of share in some of that frustration. And we hope that Washington, D.C. will, in fact, get it right and see the vision that we have here in Utah, and incorporate it and copy. Because our vision is the correct one. And we see the results that are taking place. We don't have the problems in Utah that we have in many parts of this country. So I think our example is the right example, and I've encouraged Washington, D.C. to follow it.

By the way, I applaud those who are saying, "You know what, I'm frustrated, I'm angry, and I'm going to do something about it."

Exercise your First Amendment rights. Get involved. Everybody should get involved. Take a page out of the occupy whatever, fill in the blank city, people, and get involved yourself.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Governor, just the couple of minutes that we have left, yesterday the Interior Department, Secretary Salazar announced a plan to impose a 20 year moratorium on new uranium mining claims north of the Grand Canyon, which would include some areas of southern Utah. What's your view of that subject, and is uranium mining in particular something that Utah needs to pursue aggressively? 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Absolutely. Again, I think we need to first make sure we have public safety as a first principle, and we want to make sure that what we do protects our environment and protects the people of Utah and surrounding areas. Uranium is kind of a volatile, difficult mineral, and there's concerns about it being left exposed to people. That being said, there's a need for uranium. In fact, our uranium supplies have depleted so consequently there's kind of a resurgence of need to mine uranium.

We'll be working with Secretary of Interior Salazar, I've had many opportunities. They tell me, his staff, that I've met with Secretary Salazar more than any Governor in America. It's because we have some needs, there, and we're trying to find that proverbial win win. And I'm going to talk to him about the uranium strip down there between Utah and Arizona, and see if we can't find a reasonable, rational way to move forward, to protect the vistas and venues down there, but access our natural resource in uranium in a sensible and reasonable way.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: And make sure that previous mine sites are cleaned up and secured?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Absolutely. Again, if we're going to dig a hole, as I said before, we need to fill it up. We need to reclaim those areas that we mine. We have the technology to do that. There's no reason to rape and pillage the countryside. We have a beautiful state and we want to make sure it maintains its beauty, and we can do that.
I was out in Vernal not too long ago with Secretary Salazar, and we opened up, renewed the dinosaur museum out there, and the beautiful vistas and venues out there, and yet just down the road a piece we have mining, natural gas and oil drilling that's taking place. We can do both, and we're going to find that appropriate balance point and do both in the state of Utah.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: All right, thank you very much for your time today, Governor. Transcripts and video of each of the Governor's news conferences is available on line at uen.org and at kued.org. And we thank you very much for joining us today.

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