January 26, 2012

I don't like the legislature being a super board of regents, you know, or a super school board or a super local government control. They have a role to play and they need to let the locals play their role too.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning!

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Good morning, governor. Governor, this week in the state of the state address that championed state's economic profile and promised aggressive defense of Utah's right to chart its own path, you did make reference to a concern, and that was an environmental concern, the concern of clean air in Utah. And you said not now, but soon initiatives will be announced from your office. Are these initiatives going to be available during the legislative session and could you explain to us the level of your concern? We each have our own, but what is yours?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I hope to be able to roll this out in the next couple of weeks. We've been working on it for a number of weeks, and so the plan would be in fact rolled out during the latest session. I think all of us recognize we have some unique challenges when it comes to the air quality in Utah, and we have some of the worst air on 17 to 20 days during the year of any place in the country. And we cannot just ignore that. We can't just blame it on the weather. I think we've been really working very closely with industry over the past number of years. Our point sources with industry have been lowered dramatically. But here's the surprise for most of us. Most of the pollution now is coming from us as individuals, from our own automobiles, our own homes. We're burning too much energy. We can conserve more. And so I think you'll see more of an emphasis on we people having to do our part, along with what industry's already done. So, again, I think it's an issue that's not only a health issue for people here, particularly along the Wasatch Front, but it's still out in the basin with ozone, it's up in Cache Valley, but it's economic development. If we don't get a handle on this air quality, we will stifle economic growth and development in this state. So health and economics mandate that we do something and rule out some proposals that we think will help us all work together, all of us doing something will help clean up the air.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, Representative Patrice Arent has a bill to create a task force on air pollution. It passed committee yesterday. Is that something that you plan to support?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I haven't read all the details of the bill. I know Representative Arent has got some ideas of a task force. I think that makes some sense, and that would be kind of a year from now. I'm going to try to do something a little more immediate, but hopefully they'll be compatible. Again, this is a challenge that's unique to Utah because of our valley and the inversions that we have here, but we can't let that be the excuse any longer. We need to find ways to deal with our unique situation. Again, to protect health and have good environment and again to allow us to continue to have economic growth and expansion take place in Utah. So, again, it's going to be all hands on deck. All of us have some roles to play. And I'm looking forward to working with Representative Arent on her proposal.

REPORTER: Can you give us an idea what some of the solutions you have in mind are?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'll just save that for my press conference when we roll this out in a couple weeks rather than today and give you the details then. But it's going to be more involved with all of us participating, not just industry. Industry has a role and they will have a continued role, but a lot of us have got to step up and not point the fingers at somebody else's problem. It's all of our problems and we all need to be a part of the solution.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Talking about everybody participating and about autos, there have been things done that -- and more that could be done. You could toughen inspections so that autos pollute less. You could, like they do in California, have the special pump so that you don't leak gas when you fill up. You could force people to drive less or raise gasoline taxes and encourage them to do transportation. Most of the things you do with people and their cars, they complain. Are you going to be able to do something that will actually reduce auto pollution even if people complain?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I believe people act in their own best interest and so we need to provide a form for input, like you suggested, and a recognition and awareness that this is in your own best interest to change your behavior. I think that's the way we'll approach it and I think that's how we'll get good outcomes. There's always going to be somebody that's going to complain, but I think most of us understand for our best interest going forward some of our behavior needs to change. And there's going to be new technology and new opportunities. Our automobiles, for example, are a lot cleaner today than they were just 20 years ago with new onboard diagnostics and the ability we have to inspect and our exhaust fumes. We're doing a lot better than we've done in the past and I believe we're going to find new technology going forward. So I'm optimistic we can address the problem and people's behaviors will change and modify as well as new technology will be incorporated.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Will you require legislation -- in order to do what you want to do, is there going to have to be a new law you're going to have to get it out so the legislature can act?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, I'll have a press conference on it here in a couple of weeks and we'll talk about what we're going to do and we'll save that for then. I hope that we change people's behavior more with the carrot rather than the stick.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You seem to have missed an opportunity. Last year, Kennecott needed a new clean air deal and you guys let them continue to burn coal in the Salt Lake valley for power where -- those guys have money coming out their ears, you could have said burn gas or do something so you don't pollute the air. Why did you miss the opportunity with Kennecott?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, that's one man's opinion, Rod. I don't know that I would characterize it quite the way you've said it. I appreciate the fact that they're making money. Isn't that great? I hope that Kennecott and Rio Tinto is profitable. We want all of our businesses to be profitable. They're in the process of transition. They're going to burn less coal and more natural gas. They are doing their part to clean up and reduce the pollutants that come out there. So I don't think we've missed an opportunity, I think it's a matter of finding the right balance in the transition period to in fact go from a more pollutant like coal to a less pollutant like natural gas. So I don't know that we've missed an opportunity, I think the opportunity is still there and we're going to work together with our private sector and industry. But I'm here to tell you, if we think it's just going to be industry that does it, that's going to clean it up, when you see the numbers and the graphs you'll find out that industry's doing quite well. It's the rest of us that have got to step up.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX 13 NEWS: Governor, any concerns that this is going to devolve into an argument about climate change in the legislature?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No. I don't think that's part and parcel of what we're talking about here, the climate change and global warming. It's really about air quality. This is an issue. All of us want to have clean air to breathe, clean water to drink. Those are issues that I don't think there is any controversy on.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: Governor, during your state of the state speech last night, as in last year, you talked about intrusion of the federal government and coming up with Utah solutions to Utah problems. You mentioned the disastrous flooding in Southern Utah and other disasters, but you didn't talk about the millions of dollars in federal aid that was being sought by the state. Is it not a little hypocritical to talk about Utah solutions for Utah problems and simultaneously, you know, be seeking federal help?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Not at all. That's our money. We put money into the federal government in a dramatic fashion as do all states that pay federal taxes. FEMA is like an insurance program we put into the pool. Some of our money's gone to help California with their earthquakes and their fires down there for disaster, some of our money's gone to Hurricane Katrina and Rita in Louisiana and Mississippi. And some of the money's coming back because of our windstorm here in Utah. That's part of how the process works. So as we put money in, we're going to get some federal money back. This is a big insurance program. So it's not hypocritical at all. We all want to be as independent as we can be. Unfortunately, the federal overreach is mandating us to do things that we ought not to be doing. And so I think that's the concern that -- it's not just republicans, but democrats are concerned about the overreach too. So, again, we want to be as self-sufficient as we possibly can, be in partners where we can, but being independent where we ought to.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, if I could follow up on that, the last budget that was proposed by your predecessor had about 22 percent of the budget was federal funds; now it's up to over 27 percent. Federal funds have grown by more than a billion dollars since you took office. You said you were going to be a bulwark against the federal intrusion. Can you be a bulwark against federal intrusion and still take a billion dollars more in federal funds over the last three years?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, we put the money out there and, you know, we have to pay the bill. I think my criticism is that the federal government needs to control themselves and we, as governors, are trying to get them to in fact understand that. Not all governors, some governors are out there saying, "bail me out, bail me out." There are programs that are growing exponentially. I'll just mention one. Medicaid. I mean, the biggest bulk of my budget right now and the surplus increased revenues we're coming up with I'm going to have to put back into Medicaid. The healthcare reform is not working very well and states were not invited to come to the table to talk about it to give input. I find that unconscionable, by the way. And the overreach there with healthcare reform and what we have now with the patient protection affordable care act is probably the most egregious example of federal overreach. It's going to cost us a lot of money. The Medicaid portion of that alone will increase by mandate my budget by $1.3 billion over the next ten years. So, yeah, we've had some increase in money in the budget because of the mandates that come out of Washington, D.C. and part of this effort to have a partnership, but we can wean ourselves off it, we will live within our means as the federal government balances their budget, and I hope they do, we'll make those critical adjustments as we in fact do what we need to do here in Utah. When it comes to the state portion, we're doing more with less, our efficiency is incredibly much better now than it was just back in the year 2000. Today, we have 22,250 state employees. You have to go back to the year 2000 to find a number smaller than that. We have right now -- from 2000, we had one state employee for 113 residents of Utah, and today we have one state employee for 139 residents of Utah. So we're getting leaner, we're getting meaner, we're more effective with the taxpayers' dollars than ever before in our history.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, while we're talking about state employees, last night in your address, you mentioned a small increase for teachers. I understand it's in the range of one percent which you're proposing. How about the rest of the state employees, can they look for something in this budget?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: My budget proposal in fact does have a one percent increase for state employees for their good work. Again, they deserve credit. You now, you can only say so many things during your 20 to 25 minutes that you give your state of the state. But I certainly want to give accolades to our state employees because they are doing more with less, they're more efficient delivery of services. We've used technology, we have nearly 950 of our state services that are online, we're open 24-7 because of technology. We've been listed as the best state in America with the use of technology in our governments. So our state employees deserve an increase and our budget proposal allows for about a one percent increase in salary.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You're negotiating with some legislators on liquor, and on how to redo the system. I hear that you would like to put it in commerce and keep Ms. Giani in charge. Is that in fact what you'd like and can you tell us why?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think there's more than one way to skin the cat, I guess there's more than one way to get the solution we need to have. I think putting it under the Department of Commerce is a way, maybe not the way. I can tell you this, what we have now is not acceptable. There needs to be a change. And the change needs to be when it comes to oversight and accountability and where that can be done by expanding the commission itself from the five members to maybe seven, that's a proposal that's out there that I'm looking at also, regardless of whether that's the way to have better oversight and have everybody assigned duties and maybe some additional staff for auditing, making sure that the dollars are being tracked appropriately, that the product's being tracked appropriately, the procurement procedures are being done according to the law, you know, I'm willing to look at that. But I can tell you what we have now is not going to stand. There's going to be more accountability and oversight.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX 13 NEWS: What do you say in response to the calls for privatization? There is some legislation that could include that this session. You've had some audits and surveys that have been done. It seems like you have polls overwhelmingly favor that. What do you think about it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think it's worth while to have discussion and, again, I've talked with Representative Wilcox who is one of those that's proposing it. I think there's others out there that would like to have additional discussion, I think it's worth consideration. There are issues with privatization that need to be discussed too, and that is as we privatize it there would be the potential of losing about the $80 million in profit that comes with the state controlled aspects of this that we have in the market. I'm not sure you can just translate that back to say, let's just raise the tax up. You'd have to have like an 86 percent tax rate, which I don't know that sends a good message to the marketplace that taxes are rising in Utah, the best place for business. So there's issues of privatization that are worth consideration, and there's some that cause me pause. But I think we're going to have a healthy discussion this upcoming latest session but I can tell you what we have in place now will be changed.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You're going to have to decide fairly soon. You've got to get it in front of the legislature and they've got to pass it. What are you going to --

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's only the third day of the session, so I think we've got some time here, so I'm not too panicked right now. But there's discussions going on and we're going to have discussions. The legislature will create the legislation. We kind of try to be there to help understand and steer the discussion. But there's three or four different proposals out there that I'm considering all.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: If they put in Congress or somewhere where it was under review, are you confident you can shake the place up, you can keep it right? If you were in charge, could you go down there and fix it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No question. I can be a very tough task master. I have a little whip I can flail the people with. I don't think we have a big broken problem. I think the taxpayers have been served well with the system we have in place now. I think it's served Utah well. There's some areas that need to be fine tuned and modified, but it's just the perception of lack of oversight, the fact that there's been audits in the past that have not resulted in some corrective action that causes me concern. So, again, I'm confident that what we have in place now will be changed and modified and you're going to find more oversight, more accountability in our alcohol distribution process.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX 13 NEWS: So what do you support, do you support full-time commission, do you support -- what are you coming down on?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm looking at all of them, Ben. I'm looking at a full-time commission or expanded numbers, I'm looking for potentially underneath the Department of Commerce and having the nuts and bolts of it taken care of by Congress. I think the commission has a role to play when it comes to implementation of the statutes, policy and licensing. That part I think has worked fairly well over the past. So maybe a hybrid of those two issues. So I'm going to look at all of them; I'm not ready to come out and endorse one versus the other. We're going to have a discussion probably the next couple weeks before we come down and say this is the right way to go.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: On the topics of audit, a new audit out today raises some questions about the financial future for UTA, more debt than they have -- they don't have dedicated reliable revenue streams. Are you concerned about that? Does there need to be some change to the tax structure to make sure that UTA is viable going ahead or do you --

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Robert, I haven't seen the audit so I don't know the details of that. Clearly, on principle if we're not having enough revenue to pay for the expenses, we ought to be concerned. You know, UTA has always been kind of an interesting entity out there created by local governments as a special service district and, you know, people argue pros and cons. I think everybody understands the benefit of mass transit, particularly for air quality issues as we're getting into more acute problems here as we have a very fast-growing population and a lot of it centered here on the Wasatch Front. So having a mass transit capability is important. And we are at that point where we have critical mass that should make things work better economically. And if we are not balancing our budget at the UTA, I would have a concern and I expect their board who controls that should have a concern and will deal with that appropriately.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: Governor, you've been a strong supporter of local government and talking about how the government closest to the people governs best. This year in the legislature, there's a bill that would essentially say, Salt Lake City or any other city could not, you know, ban electronic billboards. It's sponsored by Senator Niedhauser, the same legislator who last year sponsored a bill telling Salt Lake City, you can't have any historic districts which you signed into law. Does this give you cause for concern, the legislature passing down this mandate to Salt Lake City?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes. I am from local government and I do understand the challenges that local government have in managing their own affairs. I do believe it is a truism that government closest to the people represents the people the best. They are close. They understand the unique circumstances and characteristics of their local communities. I don't like anybody that kind of micromanages. I don't like it when the federal government does it to the states and I know as a local government person I didn't like it when the state did it to the locals. And now, again, there's a subtle difference there because there are subdivisions created by the state so they are subservient, whereas under federalism the states are not subservient to the federal government, we should be in fact in a partnership role there. But I would think that the legislature would be wise in listening to the local government in getting their input before they make any decisions because the unintended consequence could be that we don't have as good of governance and the people will be underserved. I don't like the legislature being a super board of regents, you know, or a super school board or a super local government control. They have a role to play and they need to let the locals play their role too. So I'm a little concerned about any kind of micromanagement.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: But you did sign that historic district bill last year.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, for a variety of reasons. Again, we have a latest process it goes through, there's debate and, again, it's not always black and white. There sometimes needs to be uniformity across the state and -- we try to get taxes the same so we don't have businesses moving from one county to the other county and have more uniformity in that way. But, you know, that's a concept, a principle, but it's not black and white.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: The University of Utah announced the appointment of a new president last week, David Pershing. If he were to sit down with you and talk with you about your vision for the role of the state's largest higher education institution, what points would you seek to stress with him about this university serving this public?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, in fact, I'm going to be getting together with Dr. Pershing and I'm really inviting him to come to talk with me about his vision of where the university can go, what's the next level. I think he has the ability of being somebody who's been familiar with the university and now can take it to this new level. As they join the Pac-12 there's opportunities for them to raise the bar. But, as you know, kind of the flagship university along with Utah State University, they have a significant role to play and I think that we need to, in fact, make sure that, with the Board of Regents' help, all of our universities are working together in tandem, complementary. They can't all be the University of Utah, but they have roles to play that are complementary. And I think that needs to be emphasized. We also need to make sure that we have our universities that have a good working relationship with our legislators. I sometimes think that there seems to have been some kind of adversarial kind of confrontational sometimes attitude with our university and our legislators, particularly University of Utah. That ought to stop. We ought to make sure that we're working together, again in a complementary fashion. And I think that will come with new leadership and better lines of communication. So I think there's opportunities out there. I think the University of Utah is doing some great things. You know, they're number one right now with the research and development that's taking place and converting it to private development, private businesses and startups. We just surpassed here a year ago MIT, I think for the second year in a row we're number one. So that's good news. They're doing some great things. The medical school, what a valuable resource it is. And as you know in my budget I've added some money there to increase by 20 the students that go to the medical school there and produce more doctors. That's good for us in a variety of reasons and a variety of ways as we help tackle the rising cost of health care. More doctors in the marketplace will help us. So I'm pleased with the University of Utah and the direction they're going. I think Dr. Pershing's going to take it to the next level.

DENNIS ROMBOY, DESERET NEWS: Governor, the immigration bill that was passed last year, HB 116 Representative Hare is looking to replace that bill, possibly repeal it. What are your thoughts on replacing and repealing that bill that you had signed last year?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, there were four bills that were signed, they were all kind of complementary. There was not one that was just designed to be stand-alone. My view of them all, it was a complement, and I think it did what was designed to be done. But specifically House Bill 116, it was always thought there was going to be some modifications, some change. That's why the implementation was for two and a half years later. And I think that the feeling of the legislature was we need to look at it and study it and see if we need to smooth off some rough edges. Clearly, that's been part of the discussion. And I guess I don't care whether it's repeal and replace or modify and replace. I think you can get to the same place of an improved bill and I think that's probably going to be the intent of the legislature and something that I'm going to watch closely and see whether I concur. But I expect there will be some discussion, and hopefully some reconciliation of the different factions out there to come to a place that gives us comfort on the rule of law and the aspects of what do we do with those who are already kind of stuck inside of our borders.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: What about the provision that's been talked about, the so-called Burbank Rule, where if a law enforcement agency had instructed his officers not to enforce federal immigration law, that that officer, that chief, that sheriff, would be decertified and have their post certification yanked?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I know there's a difference on opinion on what the local law enforcement people should be doing, that's part of the Constitutional challenge that we have where our enforcement law is in court today. I'm one that recognized that the frustration that's coming on this issue is because of the federal government not doing what they should be doing, the securing of the borders, making sure we have the common sense immigration policy that allows people to come in and go out and go back out as the marketplace would allow us and demands. We've got to get the federal government to step up and do their part. And the frustration is basically states are saying -- and it's not just Utah -- but if you're not going to enforce the law, we will. The law's on the books, you're not doing it, and we will. And I think that's the attitude here in Utah and I think that's why the bills are saying, Hey, local government, you need to step up, you need to do it. And that mandate is a part of the discussion. Now, not all law enforcement likes it, but the vast majority of law enforcement support that fact. Maybe Chief Burbank doesn't, and that's something we'll have to try to work through.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Isn't that overreaching?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, the state has the right to, in fact, say, Inside our borders here's how we're going to conduct our affairs. And the fact of the matter is we have people who are undocumented who are here illegally and the law requires that law to be enforced and the government isn't doing it. And it's causing societal concerns and causes economic concerns, it's causing problems with your schools, our education. It ought not to be where it is today. It is what it is, it's taken us about 25 years to get here, and it will take us maybe some time to get it fixed. And there's probably two or three different ways to do it but, again, I can tell you there's going to be a strengthening of E Verify, the business community has got to step up. They cannot continue to be a magnet and an enticement and reward for people that, you know, break the law. You can't say, Come here, break the law, and we'll give you a job. So I think you'll see some discussion on E Verify, and I support a stronger E verify program.

KEN VERDOIA,KUED: And unfortunately, Governor, we are out of time for our meeting today together. We will join you next month for another edition of the Governor's Monthly News Conference.

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