January 24, 2013

"...We will have a significant emphasis on education. Our goal of 66 by 2020...is...to unite everybody in the legislature and across this state in raising the bar for educational achievement..." -Governor Herbert on KUED

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning. Let me just say it's good to be back with you after a few months of vacation, and thank you for coming today. And before I open it up to questions, let me just make a comment, if I could.

One, it's a new year. And I'm optimistic about the new year. We also start our legislative session this coming Monday, and each legislative session, as you know, has its own unique challenges, and this session will be no different. But we will have a significant emphasis on education. Our goal of 66 by 2020, which you've heard before, is something that we're going to see if we can't, in fact, utilize to unite everybody in the legislature and across this state in raising the bar for educational achievement in this state. I think it's necessary for us to do it in order to have continued economic prosperity, and have opportunities to grow the economy in ways we've not done in the past.

So I'm going to look to Senator Jerry Stevenson to pass a resolution, or at least introduce it and have the legislature pass a resolution, of 66 by 2020, which I think will galvanize us all together as we look forward to raising the bar for education.

I know there's going to be some challenge with the budget, that's always a big issue. I'm very optimistic. I see the economy of Utah growing. There is that cloud that kind of hovers over us because of Washington, D.C., and the uncertainty it brings to the equation. But I'm confident we'll get through that, and we'll have a great session, and the outlook for Utah should be one of optimism. So I'm looking forward to the session, working with the legislature, and with all those involved in that, and I think we'll have a great year. With that, what questions are on your mind?

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Well Governor, yesterday the chair of Utah's Republican party expressed his concern about this situation involving our Attorney General, John Swallow, and outlined some recommendations that he thought would improve the ethical climate in the state government. My question for you is, do you think it's time that the Republican office holders in the state, as they're being urged to by Mr. Wright, take a more serious look at ethical considerations in state government, and perhaps implement some of the reforms he suggested?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I've not talked to Mr. Wright, so I don't know all the details of what his proposals are. I think it's always important we talk about ethics and see what we can do to raise the bar. The situation with the attorney general certainly raises concerns on many different levels.

I'm a little concerned about the rush to judgment that some have exhibited on this issue. I think it's, in a country where we pride ourselves on the concept that you're innocent until you're proven guilty, we ought to make sure that the attorney general has his day to have the facts. We have already a federal investigation that was ongoing before this happened, and he's called for another investigation through the U.S. attorney. So I'd like to see what the facts are before we make any rush to judgment or jump to conclusions.

That being said, I do believe that there's need for some reform. An issue that ought to be looked at, and I would call upon the legislature to pass legislation, and I know that there are some, Senator Todd Weiler, for example, is one who's talked with us about making a law so that the attorney general and those who work in the attorney general's office cannot have outside employment.

We, in the Governor's office, already have that as part of our criteria for employment with us. You cannot have outside employment unless we give you an exception to the rule. We need to make sure that there's no conflict of interest, and that any outside work you have would not impede your ability to perform in the Governor's office. For example, my general counsel, John Pierce, had to give up all of his outside work when he came to work in the Governor's office as our general counsel. The only exception we've allowed for him to teach a law class at the University of Utah.

So, again, I think that's some legislation that ought to be, in fact, introduced and passed in the upcoming legislative session.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, those proposals from the GOP chairman, Thomas Wright, only apply to executive office holders, yourself, the attorney general, treasurer, auditor. Should they apply to lawmakers as well? I know they're part time, but there are ethical concerns there, as well, aren't there?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well again, not knowing all the specifics and the motivation that Mr. Wright has come up with, I would have to defer my comments on that until I've had that chance to explore what his proposals are, in particular the details. That's where the devil lies, and so we need to find out what they, specifically the recommendations are.

I think that all elected officials should be, adhere to a code of ethics of openness, of transparency, of making sure that there are not conflicts of interest. We, in fact, in this state have prided ourselves on having opportunity for anybody to be a part of the legislature. It is a part time legislature, as people actually have real jobs and real work environment, so that what they do up on the capitol hill hopefully reflects the marketplace.

And, again, I know the legislature has, in fact, over the last couple years, modified and improved our ethics. Can we do more? Probably so. But I think it should apply across the board for everyone, whether it's local government elected officials, our state legislature, or the Governor's office in the executive branch.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: One of the issues that's been raised by Thomas Wright, by Senator Valentine and Senator elect Dabakis, chairman of the Democratic party, is that there's not an ethics complaint process for members of the executive branch, elected officials, like people from your office, people from the attorney general's office, if there is something that the public sees that is, they believe is unethical, and they don't have any place to go with that, necessarily, except perhaps the AG's office. Would you support the creation of a commission or a panel to review ethics complaints if the need arises?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the legislature, in fact, has created an ethics panel

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Pertaining to legislators.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Excuse me?

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: They have a panel that pertains to legislators.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: The legislature. Again, what I was going to say is they've done that for the legislature. I think it would be very appropriate to have that same kind of tribunal, panel. If your ethic complaint's against the executive branch, they could bring those complaints and have them vetted there also. I have no problem with that. Again, I think we need to make sure we have opportunity for people to complain, and have that complaint heard, and then reviewed, and see if there's any merit to it. So, again, I don't think the executive branch should be any different than the legislative branch so I would support that effort.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Part of this problem seems to be campaign finance. If I understand correctly, Mr. Swallow was his predecessor, Mr. Shurtleff's, campaign finance man. He went to Jeremy Johnson, who contributed generously to Mr. Shurtleff's campaign. So they had a relationship, and maybe Mr. Swallow owed Mr. Johnson a favor, which Mr. Johnson may have asked to redeem in Krispy Kreme donuts. Do we need some sort of campaign finance disclosure or reform? Notably, Mr. Swallow did not disclose the business relationship he had with Mr. Wall while he was campaigning.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, let me answer it this way, Rod. Not knowing the specifics of the Swallow situation I know there's a lot of rumor, innuendo, we have people that maybe have been accused of being kind of con men speaking as if they have credibility. So we'll wait and see what the facts are. That being said, I think campaign finance reform, as I've come down on the side of openness and transparency, I think the public has a right to know where the money comes from, and make whatever judgments that would provide for them as far as who is supporting who for elected office, based on what criteria are there. So having disclosure, having openness in that process, knowing where the money comes from, how much, and when you received it, I think, are important parts of disclosure.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: In the last campaign, a negative ad against Mr. Reyes, Mr. Swallow's Republican opponent, ran in Utah, and so far as I know, no one knows It came out of Nevada, and so far as I know, no one knows who was behind that ad. Is there a way so that you say disclosure is there a way so that when a negative ad runs against a candidate, you can find out who's paying for it? Or should there be a way?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: There should be. Again, I think the people that hide behind anonymity do a disservice to the process. And it's not only Sean Reyes and his campaign in an ad that he doesn't know who was behind it and what their motivations are for saying what they say, but I think Representative Brad Daw, a legislator, had the same kind of situation in his campaign. So I think the public has a right to know, and it helps them make decisions, knowing who's behind ads, where that money's coming from, who is supporting it. And so openness and transparency would specifically dictate that we have an understanding of who's giving money, and who they're supporting, and who are the names behind that support.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You mentioned that the facts should come out, and you mentioned the federal investigation. We don't know The feds won't say whether they're actually investigating. One would guess they are, but they won't say. And my point is this. Unless there are federal criminal charges, they're not going to say anything. So if there were ethical lapses, or maybe even a state law was violated, this federal investigation will give us no clue, ever. Should there be another state investigation to bring the facts to light that may not pertain to federal criminal charges?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, let's wait and see what happens with the factual investigation. I think that there is wisdom behind an investigation that goes on, where we don't taint somebody's reputation by the fact that they're being investigated. I think the fact that somebody is being investigated does not mean that they're guilty, or maybe that there's even an investigation warranted. But somebody's made the accusation, someone has to look into it, see if it's true, what are the facts? And then decide whether, in fact, there's been a violation of law.

Ethics is a different situation, I grant you that. And I think that we need to have an ethical standard that, in fact, maybe a review through the legislature, through this commission process. I think there's been at least an attempt to try to have an investigation that takes place to see if there's violation of ethics.

Ethics is a little more squishy, because, you know, with the golden rule, sometimes depends on your point of view. And so I think we need to be careful about that. You know, the law is the law, to keep us on the right sides of the line. And that's the number one issue for us. We go above and beyond with ethics, it's a little more difficult. But I certainly think that's something that the legislature can investigate themselves, they do it in congress, they have an ethics commission. We can have the same review process for the executive branch, and see if there's, in fact, ethical violations. But we need to define what those ethics are.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, are you asking for an ethical investigation of John Swallow?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No, I'm not. I'm saying, let's find out where the investigation happens with the federal investigation that's currently ongoing. He's also called for an investigation by the U.S. attorney to see if there's, in fact, any violation of law, if he's done anything inappropriate. I think that will let us know, as we go forward, you know, what the circumstances are. I think we can look at a process going forward. I don't like to tie this to the attorney general, but as a principle, as a concept of having a commission that's there to review ethical violations of the legislature or the executive branch. I think that would be a healthy thing.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: But going to Rod's point, even if there is a federal investigation, which we don't know, and even if they come out with some kind of conclusion, which they may not, how are the people of Utah going to have confidence in their attorney general unless there is some kind of separate investigation into whether he adhered to the ethics of the state, the ethics he was elected to uphold?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm just saying let's not get the cart before the horse. Again, it appears that we're kind of piling on the attorney general right now because of his unique circumstances and his challenges right now. I'd like to separate what we do going forward from his unique issue.

Having a commission that reviews complaints and investigates or causes to have investigated violations of law, I think, is a good thing. Having that same commission, or one similar, to look at ethics violations, is a good thing too. So as a policy going forward I think that is, in fact, probably an appropriate thing for us to discuss and look at and see if we can, in fact, incorporate into our processes and procedures on the hill today.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: I understand what you're saying about going forward. But this is a specific situation. What's going to give Utahns confidence that he hasn't violated the ethics of this state?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think the first degree is, has he violated the law? And if we find out that he did not, I think that's going to bring a lot of, you know, confidence to his tenure as attorney general. And if not, then we've got a whole other set of problems there, and I expect that will lead to some other consequences.

But let's see what happens there first, before we jump to the more finite, "well, it may have been legal but it wasn't ethical." You know, that's sometimes a little harder to define. And so you know, he has to play by the rules, and if he is, he's going to be okay. But if he's not, then he's got another set of problems.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: If there are indictments against him, should he resign?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, an indictment doesn't mean you're guilty.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Right.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'll let Mr. Swallow make that determination. Clearly, if he gets indicted, that presents him with a more difficult situation. Clearly a conviction would warrant resignation.

MICHELLE PRICE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, Mr. Wright said that while it's unclear whether the attorney general did anything unlegal, it did say he's made mistakes. Do you agree with that statement?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, Mr. Wright has not talked to me, so I don't know what his point of view is regarding John Swallow making mistakes. Again, it's kind of easy for anybody to sit on the sidelines, and say, "Well, gee, I wouldn't have done that," and not having been in that situation. So I think that's potentially disingenuous for people that sit on the sidelines and criticize activity.

That being said, I expect that the attorney general himself wishes he had not had a meeting at Krispy Kreme's. So again, even himself probably thinks, "Hey, that was a mistake," and mistakes we make politically, there's mistakes we make, lack of judgment. And then there's mistakes which are violation of law. There are different degrees, and certainly one is more serious than the other.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Have you met with Jeremy Johnson to discuss these issues?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I have not. In fact, other than I've seen his picture in the paper, I really wouldn't know Jeremy. I know of Jeremy, I've heard of him in the past, but I don't know Jeremy Johnson.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: If he had called you and asked for a meeting would you have met with him?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Our policy, we have people that call all the time that have got issues out there, and of course I'm an elected official, and you have problems it's not unusual for people to say, "Let's call our elected official and complain." That's part of our job. But if somebody called in that regard, as we do get calls all the time, I refer them to my general counsel, say it's something I cannot get involved with and discuss it. Not to mention that I'm not any expert on the law. So we have a general counsel that can refer them to where they need to go to get answers to their respective complaints or issues.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, at the risk of changing the subject, we are in what appears to be the third week of a really thick inversion that's covered the Wasatch Front, Cache County, and yesterday you had a delegation of doctors asking you to take immediate action on some of this. First of all, what do you think of the recommendations from the Utah Physicians For a Healthy Environment? And second, is the U Care program that you put in place to fight air pollution enough, since it relies so much on voluntary action?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we have a unique topography and meteorology here in the valley. And so these inversions really are bad. And we've had kind of a longer period of inversions here this year than we've had in many years past. So the air quality has been bad, and it's not acceptable. But we need to do everything we can do under the law to, in fact, improve the air quality.

And we've done a lot. It's hopefully not lost on the public out there that we've spent billions of dollars on putting 125 miles of track in place, our Trax system, our Front Runner system, we've spent billions of dollars on road improvements, I 15 reconstruction, to allow traffic to flow more freely, less idling. We have anti idling programs. We're spending $4 million on an airshed study in the Uintah basin. We're working in Cache County to take care of their air quality problems. We, in fact, signed an MOU with other states encouraging the use of not only hybrids but compressed natural gas automobiles.

We work with Questar to make sure that the natural gas, compressed natural gas is available, accessible up and down the I 15 corridor and other parts of the state so we can transition from a petroleum gasoline based fuel to compressed natural gas, which is less CO 2 and carbon emissions. We, in fact, in our own fleet, now, you have to justify why you need to have a gasoline powered automobile as opposed to a hybrid or a compressed natural gas car.

We have industry that's stepping up and transitioning from coal to natural gas. We have LEEDs buildings, you know, and more environmentally sensitive buildings. Even in our own structure at the capitol we're trying to conserve energy by recycling utilization heat from computers and others to see if we can find more efficiencies. So there's a lot going on. Our U Care program is a part of it. I would hope that everybody understands that they have a role to play. When the doctors came to visit with me yesterday and bring their petition, I understand their concern. I have the same kind of concern for dirty air. But I hope that they, in their journey to the capitol, car pooled, rode Trax, came up on the Front Runner, took a bus, or if they're like too many of us they just rode up in their automobiles and contributed to the problem, as they're complaining about finding a solution.

The majority of the pollutants we see out there in the atmosphere today, in this valley, come out of the tail pipes of our automobiles. And so all of us have a responsibility, a role to play, in helping to clean up the air. We need to start thinking and be sensitive about our trips that we take. We ought to use mass transit. We ought to car pool. We ought to stay home on red days and see if we can, in fact, contribute to the cleaning up.

Again, conservation is a part of it, what we burn. That the easiest thing we could do in saving energy is to not use it. And that helps with the environment. So we have a role to play for all of us if we're going to clean up the air, and we can't just point the finger at somebody else, and then ourselves kind of not contribute to the solution too.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: A state representative has proposed a bill that would allow, that would prohibit law enforcement from enforcing any new federal gun regulations. Do you have, have you talked to Representative Green about his bill, and what do you think the prohibition on new federal, new enforcement of federal regulations?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I have not. He has not contacted me, and I've not talked with him. I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment, and we ought to do whatever we can, under the law, to make sure we have a safe environment. We pride ourselves here in the state of Utah of having a low crime rate. We have less crime per capita here, and less violent crime than other parts of the country. That's good news. But every kind of evil that could occur in other parts of the country certainly could occur in Utah. With the shooting that took place in Connecticut, emotions are running high, and I think we need to kind of bite our lip and count ten, and be a little more methodical when it comes to, "What do we do about this situation?"

I find it disappointing that we have a president who is proposing 35, 37 different executive orders to solve the problem. And skirting congress. I don't think that's the right way to solve the problem. I have others out there that are worried about somebody swooping in and taking away our guns. I think that's an exaggeration, too. But I do believe there are things that we need to do.

I think having the discussion is healthy but we ought to be doing it in a thoughtful, respectful way under the Constitution. I think background checks, we can do better. I think that's something that we need to take a look at. Mental health issues, we need to have earlier intervention to make sure that people that are mentally unstable don't have access to guns. The two categories are criminals and mentally unstable people should not have access to guns, I don't care if it's an AK 47 or a .22 hand gun. They just shouldn't have access to guns.

We also need to look at the safety of our schools. I've called upon the secretary, excuse me, Superintendent Menlove to review all of our school districts, our 41 school districts, and see if they're complying with the current existing law, which requires them to have a safety evaluation every year, and to look at things like check points and ingress and egress to see if we're, in fact, doing things to keep our children safe. And that would include, you know, security officers and law enforcement that patrol. They need to do that evaluation and, by the way, he'll report that back to me the first part of July.

And last, but not least, I can tell you, I think we need to have some self introspection about the culture of violence that we have in this country. I applaud Robert Redford here last week during the beginning of the Sundance Film Festival where he talked about this issue and said, "Maybe my industry, Hollywood, needs to take a look at what we're putting out there on the screen."

And I would add, you know, how many Texas Chain saw Massacre films can we have out there, and do we need? And the violence is graphic and gratuitous. And again, I don't know that that's healthy. A lot of the things we do try to change people from the outside. We need to think about changing people from the inside.

The virtual reality world that we live in. These video games, where our young people are having access to extreme graphic violence, where they get credit and points for being the shooter themselves, and shooting people and blowing their heads off and seeing guts and blood spill out does nothing but desensitize the respect for human life. I don't think that's a healthy thing to do. We ought to look at that and see if that's, in fact, something we ought to change. And so there's a lot that goes on with this issue of gun violence, and I think we need to have that discussion, I'm prepared to be a part of it.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Would you feel comfortable telling your DPS agents or your Utah Highway Patrol that they need to arrest or prevent federal law enforcement from enforcing new federal gun regulations?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think we need to adhere to the law. And whatever the law is, we, as a state, will adhere to it. Nobody is above the law, and again, if we have laws that are passed that are unconstitutional, and I think there is legitimate concern with executive order that that could happen, then we need to fight that in court and change the law. But I believe in the system. And I don't think We've had a civil war about seceding from the union, and I think we know what the outcome of that was. So I think we need to be a little more calm and methodical and thoughtful as we approach this very emotional issue.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Is there a measure, or more than one specific measure that you would support out of this legislature with respect to guns or school safety?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'd like to have us enforce the laws we currently have on the books. You know, I think that we probably are not, and I don't know that we need any new laws. You know, this idea that we've got to go out and fix something because of an incident or two that have occurred out there, as horrific as they are, does not mean we've got to have a whole spate of new laws. So let's just enforce the laws we've got on the books, I feel good about what we have here in Utah currently.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: All right, Governor, you, as part of this, attended Emilie Parker's funeral in Ogden. We have just a few seconds left, but your thoughts on that occasion?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Very tender occasion for me, as I was invited to speak at the funeral. And very impressed with the family, their courage, their faith, their determination, their love for their fellow man, their willingness to forgive. We can learn a lot from that family, Emelie's parents and grandparents, and hopefully we'll be a little more compassionate because of it with our fellow man, and look for ways to help rather than hurt our neighbors.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: All right, thank you very much. We'd like to invite you to look at past editions of the Governor's News Conference, as well as today's, at KUED.org. We have video of those available to you, as well, at KUED.org. Thank you, Governor.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

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