September 23, 1999

I think there's a point in the life of every problem when it's small enough you can -- or big enough you can see it, but small enough you can still solve it, and this is a small problem today, but five years from now, ten years from now, it's going to be a serious problem that will not be resolvable at that point.

Reporters (in order of appearance):

KEN VERDOIA, KUED
DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS
LUCINDA DILLON, DESERET NEWS
CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX
ROD DECKER, KUTV
MIKE WEIBEL, HERALD-JOURNAL
ROBERT GERHKE, ASSOCIATED PRESS

Transcript:

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Thanks for joining us today. While state and local tax officials are enthusiastic for your advocacy of taxation on electronic commerce, those transactions that take place in venues such as the Internet, consumers might not be quite as enthusiastic. They consider this a relatively small tax haven. Why are you so forceful in advocating the consideration of taxation on interstate or Internet commerce, e-commerce. What do you hope to accomplish?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I think there's a point in the life of every problem when it's small enough you can -- or big enough you can see it, but small enough you can still solve it, and this is a small problem today, but five years from now, ten years from now, it's going to be a serious problem that will not be resolvable at that point. What I'm advocating is no new tax obligations at all. I believe that's a -- a very important tenet. In fact, at our last commission meeting in New York, we laid out a criteria for what the tax system on sales ought to look like in the future. The very first tenet of that is no new tax obligations. There are no new tax -- taxes being proposed by any idea that I have put forward. This is simply a question of: How do we collect taxes that people owe, that they pay in every other transaction? The other criteria are, No. 2, that it needs to be a radically simplified system. I'm as concerned about electronic commerce as I am taxes. We need to have a system that will accommodate electronic commerce. You can't expect a person who does business over the Internet to be able to respond to 7,000 different taxing jurisdictions. It doesn't work, and I believe the world will operate this way in the future. I think that in the future, we'll have -- most retail businesses will have the capacity to buy over the Internet. Someone referred to it as clicks and motar. We'll have stores, catalogues, 1-800 numbers, and the Internet, and they'll need to be able to -- to buy and sell in all of those ways. Well, it's unfair and it's not a workable system to have one of those means of buying treated differently than the rest. If a person is going to be paying a tax, they ought to pay it on the basis of whether or not they buy, not how they buy. So again I'm not interested in this simply to get more tax revenue. If we get more tax revenue and we have more than what's necessary, we ought to cut taxes, and I believe there will be states who ultimately link those two, but my purpose is not to get more. It's simply to make it fair.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: There's a task force that's working on kind of a unified rate for the State of Utah, single rate sales tax. Do you think that that's at a stage where you could actually get something through the next session of the legislature, and will you try to do that?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I'm becoming more persuaded that that won't be necessary. We now have technology available that allows the identification of -- of a jurisdiction electronically. In other words, if I go onto the Internet and I have goods shipped to an address, the same technology that allows me to order it, will allow me to identify where the taxing jurisdiction is, and what rate ought to be applied, so -- and so I think that we'll undoubtedly see -- I was in Atlanta yesterday and actually saw a system demonstrated that allows a person to go onto the Internet to make a purchase and then to have the purchase shipped and to calculate, in the same moment that they do everything else, what the proper jurisdiction is so that the proper tax can be paid, collected, and remitted, and it's all done electronically. One of the other things that we're holding out as a criteria here is that it should not be a burden at all to the sellers. The sellers shouldn't have to struggle with this. So I'm not persuaded that one rate -- well, that's where I started off. I started off thinking we ought to simplify this thing radically, and you can't deal with 7,000 taxing jurisdictions and potentially that many rates. I'm now persuaded that the same technology that allows us to purchase will also allow us to administer this. It's got to be a very different system than we have today. The one we have now is a mess and it won't work, and that's what I'm interested in is just having a system that will accommodate electronic commerce in the future.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Doesn't that then drive the competitive tug of war there that if somebody has a lower rate in Tooele, that they're going to have a competitive advantage over Salt Lake or Iowa?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: That's great. That's the way the market works. If one state has lower taxes than another, then more power to them.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, yesterday the federal government announced that they were filing suit against the tobacco companies. How do you, not only as Utah's governor but leading the National Governors Association, how do you view this as -- do you view this as perhaps retaliation by the federal government because they weren't able to get involved in the state settlement and now it also appears that they may not get a chunk of whatever the states get so they're maybe retaliating in this manner?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I'm not sure I'd use the word retaliation. They very clearly were invited to participate in our suit and chose not to, and I suppose they're now looking out for their own interests in trying to recover whatever they feel like the national government has lost.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Does this muddy the waters for the state?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: State has its judgment, and we have our deal made, and we're now trying to determine how to best utilize the money. I think that it's unlikely that the federal government will have a -- will have a negotiated settlement. I think it's unlikely that anything will be resolved in the next five to seven years, but I'm pleased that the states did bring the action, I'm very pleased with the outcome, and I'm looking forward to the debate in our state as to how to use that money.

LUCINDA DILLON, DESERET NEWS: Governor, what did your task force end up with in terms of suggestions for how to use that money? Seventy-five people, I think I heard, applied for it.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Still have not resolved their recommendation to me. It's pretty clear to me that it will fall into the category of health care, tobacco, substance abuse, and other human needs.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: Governor, to your knowledge, have you or anyone in your office or anyone in state government either been contacted or interviewed by the federal investigator looking into the Olympic probe?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: No, no one here has. Well, I think no one did have a conversation with them early on, and I was told yesterday that there was a request for information from the Department of Economic Development about some form of -- they wanted information about economic development trip that had occurred in between '88 and '92. That's all I know.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: So the federal investigators made that request directly through the Economic Development Department?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Yes. We'd had no contact. I don't know how it came. I was just told the request was made.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Are you pleased that the spotlight now seems to be moving away from our bribery scandal and being placed on Atlanta, who apparently engaged in some of the content -- or some of the conduct that was engaged in Utah, though it appears right now not to as great an extent?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I think it's demonstrated that my comments early on, that the Olympic corruption did not start here, but it will end here, are true.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Monday you had a big event on drunk driving, and if I understood what you said, you're interested in getting the three- or four- or five-time D.U.I. guy off the road, and you think that can be done. What you did was you appointed a task force. Are you just -- are you in a position now just waiting to see what they do, or are you going to take some action on your own toward the end of getting the many-time offender off the road?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I believe you will see legislation at the next legislature, that I will be both supportive of and help in the preparation of, that will be focused on the end of getting more of the habitual repeat offenders of drunk driving off the road, and I -- and it will focus primarily on the use of alternative means of incarceration and things related to -- that I believe we can do to not just get them off the road but to help them. These are -- there's just not any reason for us to have -- to not just throw the book at people who are seven-, eight-, nine-time offenders, and it is very expensive to keep them in prisons, and my judgment is that those who find themselves in this dilemma ought to be paying for a good share of their own treatment where possible, and that we have the means by which we can, using technology, make certain that their lives are monitored to whatever extent they have to be in order to keep them from killing people on the roads.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Do you have any specific ideas at all? There they had a specific idea, and it was: We test them -- we give them a breathalyzer at home. I can't see how that's going to keep drunk drivers off the road.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I do have some specific ideas. They're not emanating directly from me, but I'm hearing a lot of discussion about them and have asked people who have more experience in this than I have to think about it a lot. One of the ways that we can do that is to bring people into court and say to them, "Look, you really have two choices here. We're going to put you in jail and keep you in jail, or we're going to enter into a very closely supervised lifestyle for you until such time as you've been able to demonstrate to society that you're able and prepared to live within the rules," and that might include them literally having to demonstrate that they're not drinking at times unrelated to when they're on -- or behind the wheel of a car.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: So you contemplate a law for repeat offenders that would say they have to give up drinking and we'll watch them closely so if they take a drink even at home or even where they aren't even close to a car, that's an offense?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We're going to have the capacity, I hope, to work with those who have this dilemma and this problem in their life and say to them, "We cannot tolerate you being on the road drunk. We simply cannot abide by the fact that you would go out and literally slaughter people and damage and ruin their lives. So we've got some choices. We can put you in jail, which is a very expensive thing for us and a bad thing for you and a tough thing for your family," because many of these people are actually able to support their families in other ways, "So let's engage in an agreement here. We won't put you in jail on a permanent basis if you will abide by the following rules, and that could include demonstrating that you are going through rehabilitation, that you are not drinking, that at any point in time, we have the capacity to -- to test you." We do this in drug court all the time, and it's turned out to be a very effective thing. We'll say to people, "Plead guilty to this drug charge, and if you will, we'll hold it in abeyance while we go through this eight or ten or twelve different steps of being able to get you back into the mainstream of society. If you foul up, you're off to jail" -- and I think the same kind of thing may be used as an alternative in some cases to get drunk drivers off the road who have habitually been repeat offenders. We have to -- it's not just a matter of passing a law. We've got to persuade prosecutors. We've got to persuade judges to take these alternatives very seriously, and then we've got to find a way to pay for them.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: Governor, in the past there's been talk about lowering the minimum blood alcohol level from .08. Do you think that is realistic now?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I don't know whether it is. I have not sensed that there was support in the legislature just to simply lower the percentage. My sense is that there is a great deal of support in the legislature to begin putting substantial pressure on people who are repeat offenders and to do more to enforce the laws that we currently have.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, can I change the subject to one of your favorite topics, guns. The Tribune recently did an --

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: My favorite topic or yours?

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: The Tribune recently did an investigation of the training that someone is required to go through and complete before they get their concealed-weapons permit, and what we found was that in some cases, a substantial number of cases, according to our sample, anyway, there are big holes in that program. In some cases there's not even a hands-on training with a gun involved in it, and it doesn't appear that those inspectors, those instructors, once they get certified by the state, are ever looked at again, their license is renewed, or any process to police that. Do you have any thoughts on that, or do you see any need for change or tightening up of that system?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I hadn't seen the story, and so let me deal with it generally. I believe that there is room for a concealed weapon law in this state, and I signed the law. I do believe that there are places where that law should have limits. As you know, one of the places I believe it should have limits is I don't believe people should carry guns concealed or otherwise into schools. I don't think they should into churches. I support the idea that there should be some training to assure that people know how to deal with them safely. If that's not being done adequately, then that's a process that needs to be improved.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, we'll turn our attention now to our microwave location in Logan and a question from Mike Weibel. Mike.

MIKE WEIBEL, HERALD-JOURNAL: Hi, Governor. Here in Cache County, we just recently started a new telephone line where students, or anybody else for that matter, can call in if they notice something unusual in the school. I know the state has a similar telephone hot line. Do you think that this is going to help stem the tide of crime and violence in our schools?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: The state has put into operation a one -- a toll-free number -- that will allow students to call on a totally confidential basis to report incidents where they hear students talking about things that they might do, or they see circumstances that they find suspicious. What we're finding is that often students are reluctant to go forward to a counselor or to a teacher or to some other adult and to tell them because somehow they feel like that's comprising the integrity of their friendships, but they also feel a sense of citizenship to try to prevent things like the incident at Colombine. We are receiving calls, and we're following up with some level of aggressive -- aggressiveness to find out if there's anything to them. Whether we will ever stop a Colombine, I don't know, but I believe it is one tool in a large tool kit that we need to develop to keep our schools safer and our community a place of some security.

MIKE WEIBEL, HERALD-JOURNAL: Thank you.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Governor, back to Mr. Harrie's topic, guns. There's evidently going to be an initiative sponsored by school people to keep guns out of school. There are -- there is talk even today of events where children will participate in that. This raises fears on the part of people who don't like that initiative that children will be mobilized by parents, teachers, and other school people to participate in keeping -- in a referendum to keep guns out of school, or an initiative. Would you resist using school children in such a -- in such a political measure?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I'm not aware of any plans to do so. I haven't heard any rumors to that effect. I am aware that the students at the universities, through their elective process, have made it -- the referendum a very high priority and desire to have campuses or certain areas of campuses gun free. I think that kind of activity on the part of organized student organizations is an appropriate thing.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: How about public school kids?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Again, I don't know of any plans to do that, and I don't know the context in which this sort of rumor is floating around.

LUCINDA DILLON, DESERET NEWS: Bountiful High actually is today announcing has a group that's going to the capitol to do this, and they've actually registered not as a lobbyist but as a public information group. Cheaper -- cheaper registration fees, they tell me, so in fact public school kids are getting very involved and --

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, one of the things we try to teach children is good citizenship. Now, if somehow we were -- they were being coerced into it or being required to do it out of a sense of school commitment as opposed to their own good sense of judgment, then I think that would be wrong, but last -- the last couple of years, I've seen lots of school groups taking on the issue of tobacco. That appears to me to be a very legitimate civic undertaking, teaching good citizenship, but even on that subject, if a student was being compelled to do it against their will, I think that would be wrong. If students, particularly in the high school, junior high school age, feel strongly about wanting the place where they attend school to be safe, that doesn't seem to me to be an illogical thing. Now, if we're using kindergarten students and people who are not able to make judgments on their own, that would seem to me that might be a stretch, but using high school students and using them in ways to allow them to be involved one way or the other, I don't -- I don't see anything wrong with that. It may be a positive thing.

ROBERT GERHKE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, there doesn't seem to be an end in sight to this Olympic investigation. Does it reach a point where it begins to impair the state's ability to put on successful games, and where does that point come?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I -- we're all anxious for it to be over, and we said that many times. I'm hopeful that whatever's out there happens fairly soon so we can get it cured and let the process go forward and get it behind us.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, the salary compensation committee recently recommended a twenty percent pay increase for Utah law makers, and teachers have been grumbling about it saying it wouldn't be a good idea. Granted that it is a law maker's own business whether they raise their own pay or not, would you weigh in on this? What's your opinion? Twenty percent increase?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I thought that your analysis, that it is not the governor's business to talk about legislative salaries, was a very astute observation.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: You don't have an opinion, though?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I'll ultimately have to make a budget recommendation, but I will say that I do not believe it's a good idea for the legislature to turn over to an unelected commission their compensation. I think it's fine for them to make recommendations, but the legislature ought to have the responsibility to stand up and vote for whatever their compensation is and accept whatever political consequence there is. I don't think -- I don't -- having said that, I don't believe legislators are overpaid. They put a lot of time in, and they put up with lots of interventions in their life. It's very important public service, and on the basis of a national average, our legislators do a lot of service that is not compensated.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: One of the things that you've worked hard on for a number of years now is getting more foster parents. The state needs more. My understanding is that while you've been doing these activities, the number of foster parents, at least relative to the number of kids who need them, has actually declined. My question is, moreover, the board in charge of this has recently said gay couples and heterosexual couples living in sin may not be foster parents. If you need foster parents, if your program isn't working, why are you limiting people who might be fine foster parents by any criteria other than that from participating?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We actually have made considerable progress in the last six years. We started off when I was governor of somewhere in the neighborhood of seven hundred families and got all the way up to twelve. Then we passed a law that required an F.B.I. background check, and the F.B.I. had other things to do, and we fell back in the eight or nine hundred range. We have since made what I think to be a very important strategic change, and that is that we formed a private foundation called the Foster Care Foundation that will have -- that's now been funded with two million -- two and a half million dollars of private money -- that will have a contract with D.C.F.S. to recruit and train foster families. We have done so because there's a need for us to involve more community organizations in the recruitment of them, and there's very early and positive signs that this is going to work and that we are going to be able to get the families that we need to provide that. The heart of your question is: Why are we not responding to some categories. My own view is that we -- that the closer we can get to a traditional family in the care of children who are at a time of need, the better, and it would be, I believe, an acceptable public policy objective to try and fill our needs that way.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: You know Governor, Rod raises an interesting point. Are you personally and in your role as governor supportive of gay couples adopting children?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: His question was related to foster families, and my -- and I support the position of the board that we should be using traditional families wherever we can, and I believe we can fill our needs that way.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: I'm stretching it out in a general sense. Are you supportive of any gay couples in Utah adopting children?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I am not.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: The professionals in the field say that there are gay couples and unmarried couples who are -- make good foster parents and that they can tell which will and which won't. That's true nationally, and that's true here in Utah, too. Both I believe have taken a position that they ought to be in the pool. I take it that you believe for some reason that we ought to go against best professional judgment and practice in this?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, the -- the best professional judgments that you speak of are not without challenge, and they're not without disagreement, and it's the policy of this state that we'll do all we can to meet our needs for foster care with more traditional settings.

ROBERT GERHKE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: A report was issued in Washington recently that said interstate construction leads to urban sprawl -- it is a bad thing -- and we should look for other avenues. Are you still supportive of the Legacy Highway, or is it a time that we look for other options?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, we are looking at other options as well. We simply cannot build our way out of this problem, but we can't do without some construction either. If we don't build Legacy Parkway, within three years we'll have just untenable congestion on I-15 north.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: And we're at the point of the program where we have just a very few seconds left. So Governor we thank you for your time today in the studios of KUED. We remind you that a full transcript of each Governor's News Conference is available online at www.uen.org, that's courtesy of our friends at the Utah Education Network. Until next time when we join you in October for the Governor's Monthly News Conference, I'm Ken Verdoia in Salt Lake City. Thank you and good night.

Recorded: September 23, 1999, 10:00 a.m. Eccles Broadcast Center
Broadcast: September 23, 1999, 7:00 p.m. KUED-Channel 7

 

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