October 28, 1999

We have argued over wilderness since 1964. We have made very little progress in that time. The sides are deeply polarized and have strong differences of opinion. It's not just about a difference in logic, it's a difference in values.

Reporters (in order of appearance):

KEN VERDOIA, KUED
RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS
ROD DECKER, KUTV
MIKE WEIBEL, HERALD-JOURNAL
TOM JORDAN, METRO NETWORKS
DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

Transcript:

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, thanks for joining us today. There are signs that Utah's long stalemate over the designation of wilderness and on public lands may finally be broken. And your relationship with the Interior Secretary Bruce Babbit is often credited for leading to the break of that stalemate. Where do we stand at this time? Are we, in fact, in an era of promise for a new direction in designating wilderness? How does this relationship with the Interior Secretary figure into this new era?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We have argued over wilderness since 1964. We have made very little progress in that time. The sides are deeply polarized and have strong differences of opinion. It's not just about a difference in logic, it's a difference in values. They're very difficult, intractable and complex problems. The Secretary and I decided in February that we would attempt, believing that perhaps the time was right, to put a proposal together that could succeed in the last part of this administration, during a time when you have a democratic administration and a Republican Congress. We have put a proposal together in the seven western counties of the state. It would resolve not just wilderness but water, roads, and also trust lands within that area. It would take some time to finish those third matters, but it would put it on a course to do so. My whole belief is that it is time for us to begin to make wilderness as opposed to talking about it. It's time for us to give certainty to rural Utah. Are we going to succeed? I don't know. You can come up empty-handed in this business a lot because of the complexity and the level of emotion that's involved. But I believe it's safe to say that the proposal on the table -- given the support of the Secretary of the Interior, and hopefully the administration as a result, the Congressional delegation and the Republican governor -- should form a place for some political support. And then we'll begin moving it forward. We've had a hearing in the Congress. We expect it to be marked up in February. It's 1.1 million acres of land. That is about 230,000 acres more than the Southern Utah Wilderness Association, or Alliance, rather, proposed in their 5.7 million acre proposal. It's hard for me to understand how they could rationally oppose this. So if it's possible to get an agreement, I think we may. It's being opposed by counties as too much and by wilderness groups as too little. It sounds like we may be getting into the range of rational thought.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, when you took the Capitol on the road to southern Utah, one of the things that you did was you pledged to southern Utah that you would back them if it came to going to court over roads in the Grand Staircase National Monument. Do you feel this week maybe now you're in a position where you have to back up that promise with San Juan breaking off talks with the Interior Department, saying we're not going anywhere, we're not going to talk anymore? Is it still your position, if they decide to go to court, that you'll be there to back 'em and ask the Legislature to fund those lawsuits?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: The state has a very compelling interest in preserving 2477 rights-of-way. With your indulgence, I'll give the viewers just a little bit of background. In 1866, a law was passed providing that any public land could be used by counties or states as roads, and they granted them what are now known as 2477 rights-of-way, perpetual use of whatever road they were to blaze across public land. That law was changed in 1976, making a process necessary for those roads to be developed. There are 6,500 RS 2477 roads in America. Five thousand of them are in Utah. Because of reasons I'm not able to document, our state in the early -- before 1976 -- did not codify our roads, and so we're very vulnerable to the federal government going in and closing these roads. Access for public land is is a very high priority, and I have made the statement, and I believe the Legislature is in harmony with this, that we'll use whatever legal resources are necessary to preserve access to those roads. Now, does that mean that the state will back every lawsuit that every county brings on every road? The answer to that is no, we will not. But we will back those that we believe set important legal precedent to define what a road is. And we'll be there with money and resources and keep that commitment. With 5,000 RS 2477 roads, if you use the Burr Trail as just one example, we've been battling over that for 10,000 - for ten years. If you take 5,000 roads times 10 years, that's 50,000 years of litigation. We simply cannot, we cannot litigate every one of those roads, and or that reason, I've been working very hard with counties and with national government to come up with a means of defining the differences on our road policies so that we can resolve them and provide good access to public lands.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: BLM's talking about restricting off-road vehicles and their access to parts of public lands. Do you have a position on that? Does the state have a position?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It's the same question. What is a road? What is right-of-way? If you talk to some in -- on one side of the issue, a -- just a narrow part or ATV track down the middle of the flat is a road. If you talk to others, it requires a superhighway. Somewhere between those two extremes we've got to define exactly what a road is so the use of those roads can then be defined.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Do you agree that BLM can say ATVs, you can't go off the road? Wherever they wish to, they can say that?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well I believe there is a right on behalf of the national government in certain places to be able to restrict use. But the issue is whether or not they're restricting use in places that have historic rights-of-way, and that goes back to this other debate.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You've said you don't know whether you're going to succeed on the super deal you're trying to pull off with Babbit. Can you give us, can you give us some idea of where it stands and what are your chances?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: On the wilderness issue?

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Yeah.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well we've got the support of the Interior Secretary, the members of the Congressional delegation. There are still some language issues to be worked out, specifically on the test and training range. But I'm confident that they can be worked out. It's really a dispute between the Air Force and the Interior Department on some peripheral lands. This is a -- this may be the only time we'll have a chance to do that in the next decade because of the split nature of the administration and the maturity of this administration in terms of its service. I just don't know, Rod. I'm going to keep pushing on this like a dog hanging onto the cuff of a person dragging down the street. They're going to have to just knock me down to the ground before I quit this, because it's time for rural Utah to have certainty. And I believe if we don't get it now, those in rural Utah who believe that it's going too far will look back with lament. I think those who are in the environmental community who don't want to go forward because they don't think it's enough, will ultimately end up delaying this to a time when it could become far more hostile than it needs to.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, do you believe though that you can still trust Secretary Babbit and this administration in view of the fact that the president recently took another action to close off millions of acres of land in the United States? Again -- in your own words recently -- it was reminiscent of the Grand Staircase National Monument. So do you still feel that you can trust the administration?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We my relationship is with the Secretary and it's based on my own dealings with him. We disagree on more things than we agree. We have become somewhat skilled over the course of the last six or seven years of being able to sort through which is which, and to not allow our disagreements to get in the way of being able to make progress. I'm convinced that the Secretary would like to see the wilderness dispute moved a major step forward in this state, and the passage of the West Desert has become, I believe, one of his highest priorities. He's spent a lot of time, a lot of staff resources, and has committed himself in front of the - in the halls of Congress. That's a substantial step forward and one that I believe moves the debate forward. Whether it will actually be finished during this Congress, I don't know. It's -- this is a stream full of slippery rocks. You can look good for a long time and get wet it fast.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Do you expect to support Merrill Cook for reelection next year?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: If Merrill Cook were to be the Republican nominee for the party and if -- as I expect -- I am a candidate for office in my party, I suspect we'll be running on the same ticket.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Will you support him before the nomination if he's challenged?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I don't expect to be involved in any races in -- 19 in 19 -- in the year 2000 -- other than my own.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, closer to home here. The Salt Lake mayor's race has seen a lot of fur flying this last week. A two-part question, if I might. I understand that you had some questions about the validity of the questionnaires sent to the mayors, and secondly, the second part of that question is have you been approached by either side -- since this is the capital city and you have to work closely with the mayor for Salt Lake -- have you been approached by either side for your endorsement?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I had a meeting with Stuart Reid, who I have known for some time, he asked my advice and I gave it to him as freely as I could. I have not had contact with Rocky Anderson. He's not sought to have any such meeting with me.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Did you decline an endorsement to Stuart?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well as I said, I don't intend to be involved in any race at the municipal level directly this year. And that's a policy that I have followed for the most part during my time as Governor.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Back to the issue of the questionnaire as administered by one of the local papers submitted to both candidates for Salt Lake City mayor, some 31 questions probing public policy issues and personal activities. Your general reaction to the notion of such a questionnaire as a possible candidate in the year 2000 and the possible recipient of a similar survey in the future. What's the reaction to that type of questioning in a format where it's presented to you in 'please confess your sins if any'?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I think that if a candidate for office has broken a law or done other such things that would disqualify him or her from office, the public has a right to know that. I thought the questionnaire became so specific and went further than I was comfortable in dealing with those issues. If a person runs for office, they need to expect that their life will be inspected. And they're at some risk, if there are matters that would be of embarrassment to themselves or to their family. On the other hand, I think to the degree that those things are disclosed, those ought to be, for the most part, the business of the candidate and his or her family. There are -- as I think about the people that we want to recruit into office -- no one is perfect. The kind of people that I believe we ought to have in office are people who care deeply about their family. They may well be the ones who are the most uncertain or unwilling to step forward in a way that might embarrass their children or their family, particularly women. They are very sensitive to their children and what might happen with their children. And that questionnaire got into things about their children and about their family members and extended family members. I worry that -- there's two things that worry me here. One is it would be a mistake for us not to worry about behavior of people in public office. On the other hand, if we become a society that runs for office on the basis that 'I am holier than thou', on either of those cases, we miss the opportunity to look at the real issues. And there is a trend in society right now to -- I think to misplace that balance, sometimes on both sides. And I'm responding to the specific questionnaire, but I make commentary really on a more general basis.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: We'll now turn our attention to a question from Logan and Mike Weibel in our location at that spot. Mike, please.

MIKE WEIBEL, HERALD-JOURNAL: Yeah hello Governor, I know it's a little early yet, but I just was wondering if you had a feel for what you'd like to see accomplished by the Legislature in their next session.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well we're very much in the process of developing our own agenda with the Legislature. A big item I think will be education and education funding. I'm very anxious to see education funded at a better level than they were last year, and that will move us a measurable step forward. I'm interested in being able to combine that debate with the discussion of how we as an entire state can make ourselves -- as parents and as students and as an education community -- more accountable for what our expectations are. I think that combination of more funding and then holding a higher expectation of ourselves as a community for educational attainment will be the major focus of the debate.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: There seems to be early indications that the surplus might not be as flush as it was last year, therefore might be a feeling that there's a leaner or tighter amount of funds that might be available for special projects such as education. Is that your understanding at this point?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We will have less new money than we have had in any of the recent years. Our economy continues to do quite well, but we have cut taxes substantially over the course of the last several years. And during the time that I've been in office, over $1.1 billion. That has caused us obviously to be running a very lean government. We're going to be required, in order to fund education adequately this year, I think to do two things. One is to scrape every dollar we can find together to do it. It will undoubtedly mean we have to some cut corners in other areas where we would otherwise not like to. The second is it's my own view that we have become too heavily weighted with our general revenues, our sales tax, into our highway program. And that we may want to take a look at the length of time over which we are bonding. Now, we currently have 15-year bonds on our highways. We're paying them off in seven. One of the worries I have is that's like accelerating payments on your mortgage. That's great. You save a lot of interest, but if you haven't got enough to pay the food budget, you may well have paid it off quicker than you can logically do it. So I think those two debates will be front and center in the Legislature.

TOM JORDAN, METRO NETWORKS: On that line just recently I was talking to Representative Garn who said the Legacy Highway is fully funded still through two 10-year funding plans. Is that right? And what's the second 10-year plan?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I think he may have been referring to the fact that each year we update the 10-year plan, and it's been there for each of the last two 10-year plans. There is money, I believe starting in 2003, for Legacy Parkway. I'd like to see it accelerated and so if it is to be accelerated in its building, we'll probably have to not add new dollars but realign where those dollars are spent.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You're concerned about low reading scores, especially in the lower grades in Utah, and you proposed a solution with some money last year. They put in a little bit of money, but they didn't adopt your solution at all. They turned it over to the districts, and the districts are doing various things to try to improve reading scores. Do you have any idea as to how the district reading improvement plans are working? And will you propose a statewide -- another statewide reading plan this coming Legislature?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I would have preferred to have a slightly more disciplined system of getting more help to students who have difficulties, but I strongly believe in both control and accountability. I think we will begin to see how the districts are doing. If they're doing well, I have no reason to offer anything else. That's my goal. If they're not, then perhaps we can go back to some of the ideas that I raised, at least as alternatives.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: It sounds like one of the ways that you want to get money, extra money for education is to extend the payoff of the bonds within that 15-year period. Is that correct? Is that something you're proposing to the Legislature?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I have not made any final budget decisions and today would not be announcing any. What I am suggesting is that I think over time, we have continued to put more and more of our general fund money to accelerate the repayment of our debt. The other day, I was out on I-15 opening the 400 South or the 600 South on-ramp. I put into the side of the jersey barrier a time capsule that had a time frame of 75 years on it. If those highways are going to last for 75 years, I am asking the question, is it necessary and prudent for us to pay them back in seven? What does that mean about the drivers who drive on it in year 10 and 12 and 14, if we are, in fact, at a time when we desperately need to fund our education system better? I've not made a proposal, but I am raising that question with the legislative leaders and others. And I'd like to hear some public debate and discussion on it as I prepare my budget.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Can I ask a follow-up question on the questionnaire? If that 31 questionnaire -- 31 question survey had been submitted to you, would you have answered those questions?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I would have answered the questionnaire. I may have made a statement similar to what I did today regarding matters. I think that my friend George Bush -- we had a discussion in this news conference earlier -- did a very good job in acknowledging the fact that he did the best he could to live his life. And I would undoubtedly respond to the questionnaire. I may not do it with the preciseness that the writers would have hoped for.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Governor, you've met with Colin Powell earlier this week and talked about kids. And you said that Utah's had some success with volunteers and kids. I would suggest that there've been some areas where we haven't had such success and would you address them. One -- we talked about education already and reading. Two -- my understanding is that there's still about the same percentage of uninsured kids in Utah now that there were when you took office and started your health print, roughly the same. And three -- my understanding is that we aren't -- we don't have as many foster parents as we used to have at one point. In fact, we've gone down on the number of foster parents available, and we need a lot more than we have. Could you address that?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: With respect to reading scores, I am deeply concerned about the fact that particularly in our fifth grade and in eighth grade, we're starting to see softening in our reading scores, and that's just flat unacceptable. We just cannot tolerate it. Because once they begin to show weakness in those areas, they -- those problems carry forward and manifest themselves in many other ways. The second area you mentioned is health care. I don't believe those statistics would be accurate. When I became Governor we had 87 percent of the children in the state insured. We're well into the 90s now, and the nice thing that I would suggest to you is that there is no barrier now for a child to receive it with respect to pre-existing conditions or health care. We have the Chip program. We have added -- expanded Medicaid. Any child on the basis of their income is below the 200 percent of the poverty line is eligible through the Chip Medicaid. We're making -- the one area I think we can point to with some satisfaction is the population of children in our state. With respect to foster care families, when I became Governor, we had 790 some odd foster families. We now have 1,106. We've been as high as 1,200. We have now launched the new Child Care Foundation that I believe will get us in the relatively near future to the goal of 3,000. We've raised $2-million of private money to do nothing now but recruit and train. We've got the churches involved. I think we'll start to see considerable progress. But I have to tell you, before we got that done, we have tried on the government side to solve that problem and have not been successful for a number of reasons.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: On the health care, the official -- the pamphlet you guys put out said 9.8 percent uninsured, if I remember correctly, which would be an improvement over 13 percent. But is 9.8 percent -- do you plan to do better? Can you set a goal? Can you say we're going to have 95 or 96 -

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Our goal is 97 percent because there's no -- from what I can see, there's no barrier, other than finding the children, to us getting to that point. If a child is below the 200 percent of the poverty line they can get their Medicaid or Chip. If they are insured by a working family, they can be insured until age 26 if they live at their home. If they have a health condition, we have the Map program. There is no barrier to a child having health insurance in this state.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Any parent of any uninsured kid can call a number -- I don't know what it is -- and you'll get him insurance. They call your office, and somebody there will get him insured?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: If their family is below 200 percent of the poverty line, there is no reason in this state for them not to have health insurance. We will help them.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: What is 200 percent of the poverty line in dollars?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It depends on how many people you have in your family. We'll help you --

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Roughly?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I think it's probably in the neighborhood of $36,000.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, a flattening out of the prison population has led some people to questioning the need to build a private prison in Tooele County, and some people are saying well maybe that's all we need to do. We don't need private prisons, after all. Does this stop the need for your interest or your interest in studying privatized prisons in Utah?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: No, no, we're going to build a privatized prison. It's been authorized. But we're going to defer it here, because frankly, our hard work is paying off and we're seeing a reduction in the number of people going in. It's very good news. We made a decision last week, actually, to defer the building for at least a year.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: And on that note, we're out of time for this edition of the Governor's News Conference. A reminder, a transcript is available online at www.uen.org. We'll see you time on the Governor's Monthly News Conference from KUED.

Recorded: October 28, 1999, 10:00 a.m. Eccles Broadcast Center
Broadcast: October 28, 1999, 7:00 p.m. KUED-Channel 7

 

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