December 16, 1999

Over the course of the last seven years we've increased education funding by nearly 70 percent. It's a significant jump, and I want to make another one this year.

Reporters (in order of appearance):

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED
RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS
TOM JORDAN, METRO NETWORKS
DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
BOB BERNICK, DESERET NEWS
LEE AUSTIN, KUSU-FM
PAUL FOY, ASSOCIATED PRESS

Transcript:

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Governor, thank you for joining us on this Thursday. You spent the last week to ten days laying out your recommendations for the budget for next year to give to the legislature. One of the things you've decided to do is make education your top budget priority this year, with a significant increase in their funding. My question is this, though. In your tenure as governor, Utah has been at the bottom or near the bottom of national averages of pupil, money spent per pupil in the country. So why has it taken until 1999 for education to now be a top budget priority for you?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, it's been actually my top budget priority every year in terms of both dollars and the amount, with the exception of a year where we really had to do some things with highways. Over the course of the last seven years we've increased education funding by nearly 70 percent. It's a significant jump, and I want to make another one this year. We will never be, during my public policy time, and I think in the near future, a leader in per capita spending. I don't think we ought to measure our success by how much money we spend. We ought to be measuring our success by what our children learn.

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Do you think you're making headway in increasing, or improving education?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: In many, many ways. Let me just give you some examples. In the seven years that I've been governor, we've hired nearly 1,700 new teachers. We have either built or replaced nearly 100 schools. We have moved the student class sizes in our primary grades down by nearly 4, and we're now making progress in our intermediate schools. Our teachers are better paid. Our parents have more involvement. So by every measure, we're making progress. However, the ultimate measure is the learning of our students. And one of the worries I have, and a part of this is not just a big investment in education, but I'm driving an agenda of more accountability along what I call a chain of accountability that begins with the student. The student has to take primary responsibility for learning. The parent has a responsibility, the teacher has a responsibility, the principal has a responsibility, school boards and the voters, we all have responsibility. This whole idea of accountability is not just about holding a teacher responsible, it's about raising our willingness as a state to hold ourselves to a higher standard. The dilemma here is we have never answered these two questions: What do our students need to know? And how good is good enough? in order to create a standard to compare ourselves between our school, between ourselves and other states, between ourselves and other countries. And I have a vision of education in the future where parents would have the capacity to go to the school or to the Internet, and on any given day be able to measure their student's progress in terms of learning against a real standard that gives them a logical context in which to measure the progress of their student.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, it seems like the ink is barely dry on your budget, and it's already taken a hit with a federal judge ordering that 25 percent of the tobacco money, which you have included in your budget, be impounded and held. Is that causing you to rethink what to do with the tobacco money? Or whether to spend it at all, since the law makers seem to be saying we're not going to spend any of it, even though he's included it in his budget?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, we've actually received nearly $20 million of it now. And for the reason that you've specified, the fact that there are so many unknowns, I've let out a set of principles that I believe we should use in dealing with the tobacco money, and one of them is we ought not to spend the money until we receive it, and another one is that we've got to be flexible here, because this is money we don't really know how much we're going to get. For that reason I did not choose to try and define in exactness what we ought to spend this money on. I'd like to work with the legislature between now and the end of February, we'll know a lot more about how much we have, how much we can rely upon on an ongoing basis.

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Does it concern you at all about the federal judge taking away some of that money? Is there anything your office would look to do to try and make sure the state gets its money?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, for the viewers, the dispute is between the law firms that represented the state and their legal fees and the state, and they brought an action saying, "We ought to get a whole lot of that money before it goes to other people." And the state is litigating that. And the judge, I think, made probably a very rational decision. He said we ought not to hold up all of this money just in a fight over a little bit of it. So let's take the amount that's at dispute and I'll hold that until we resolve it, and the rest of it we can make available for the purposes that it was intended. And we'll work through that, I think, in a relatively short time. The lawyers for the state tell me that they're fairly confident that we'll be able to work it out.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Could your figure still stand, though, since you've recommended putting half of it in a trust account, by letting the court keep the quarter, or hold of that quarter and just put a quarter in the trust account, and then you still have the other half to spend as you recommended?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: That's a pretty good idea. I really haven't given a lot of thought to that, this is relatively new. I expect that this debate over tobacco will really take shape as we get into the middle weeks of the legislature, and for that reason I have not attempted to try to get it in any level of exactness, now. I did receive 79 proposals totaling $145 million. A lot of people have ideas on how we ought to spend this money. And I chose to narrow it down to about a third of that, in terms of saying, "Here are the things I could agree with. There will be a lot of new ideas, and I intend to be a full participant in that discussion.

TOM JORDAN, METRO NETWORKS: As you know, there are a number of large organizations at the moment, along the line of the American Lung Association, Cancer Society, Heart Association, which are not happy with you for having proposed along the lines of only what looks like about 10 percent, if the money were to come, as it may or may not, but if it does, you are proposing about 10 percent for prevention and treatment programs. What's the rationale behind that? The money seemed to have been tobacco money.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, first of all it was money that came from tobacco companies to pay for a lot of injustices that were there in the future, including Medicaid and some fraud on the part of their--and so to say it has to go to, quote, tobacco, in my judgment is not a rational point, nor do I think it is, or at least I don't agree with the point--it's, I'm sure, rational--I made that decision for two reasons, primarily. One, yes, tobacco is a problem, but in terms of where the state gets a big return on its investment, attacking the problem of substance abuse to me is a much bigger payoff in both immediate and long-term ways. I want to attack the problem of substance abuse in three basic populations. One would be those who we incarcerate. It costs us a lot of money, I mean well over $25,000 every year to keep a person in prison, and 80 percent of them have substance abuse problems. If we don't heal those before we bring them back into the community, they immediately begin the same pattern. So it's a matter of both crime and correctional spending that immediately we get a return on if we deal with substance abuse in that population. The second one is welfare, or those on public assistance. Very high percentage of those on public assistance also have a substance abuse problem. If we don't solve that problem, then ultimately we end up not only putting out more money to help them with their substance abuse problem, but we maintain them and their family. So high returns. The third area would be our young people, and I'd like to focus on those three populations, and my goal, and the goal I've proposed to the state is that we cut substance abuse in half among those three in the next ten years. And I think we can do that. The second reason I chose to focus on substance abuse as opposed to just tobacco, is that we are the only state in the country that's already reached the national goal of having under 50 percent use of tobacco. Now, that doesn't mean we don't have a problem. We do. And we ought to spend some money, and I'm proposing we do. But to me it wasn't the same. Our situation is not the same as it might be in Massachusetts or in Florida.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, House Speaker Marty Stevens decided he's not going to challenge you next year for the Republican nomination. You held a news conference, there was a lot of kissing and making up and saying the Republican Party is now mending its wounds, it's coming back together. But you're apart, you're different from the legislature on several key areas that kind of inspired this challenge. One is guns, the other is wilderness. Do you see any of those two issues coming up and being a major debate in the upcoming session? And are you going to fight for any initiatives on those two fronts?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, first of all, it was satisfying to be able to talk as openly and as candidly as we did, and, as I indicated in the news conference, this was something that needed to be done. We needed to have this discussion, because I've been with them now for seven years, and there's lots of things that come up, and a lot of pressures, and this was a good chance for us to look each other in the eye and just speak as candidly as we needed to. I don't for a minute pretend that the tension that is designed to be there between the legislative branch and the executive branch will disappear, but it turned out, I think, to have some value. With respect to those two issues, I don't believe that we'll see anything with respect to wilderness in this legislature because it's primarily a federal issue. And the other thing I believe is that over time people are coming to understand that this may be an important moment for us to try and resolve this. Second, with respect to guns, I've made my position very clear, and I do have a difference of opinion with some of those in the legislature. I do not believe that our schools are a place that we ought to have guns. And I don't think that they do, either. The issue is over whether or not we ought to have concealed weapons. And you know the issue well. I think that if the issue comes up, it will be initiated by them. It's pretty clear to me that just my raising the issue again is not going to do anything unless they're prepared to act on it, and I hope that they will. I think it will resolve itself one way or the other. You've got a citizens' initiative, and I think this has been adequately debated, and I don't intend to spend a lot more time on it unless they bring it up.

BOB BERNICK, DESERET NEWS: Governor, are you going to be more vocal about it? You have been vocal about it before. If the Democrats, for example, have a bill on concealed weapons in schools, would you appear with them in a press conference and say, "We need to do this"? Would you speak out on it in some other way? Or are you going to be more quiet because of what's happened?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: My behavior on this issue will be as it has always been. I've spoken, I think, in a steady way, I've made it clear for, not just this year, but the year before, and the year before, and the year before that, that this is how I feel about this issue. And if I'm asked, I'll respond. If the legislature brings it up, I'll equip my position. If it doesn't come up, I don't know how I could have been more clear about it, and I'll just continue to be steady as I can in being able to make my point. The debate is now really potentially leaving the legislature, and that will carry forward, and it doesn't require my involvement.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: What about other aspects of the debate, though? You've talked about trying to prevent gun purchases by those who have committed violent misdemeanors, or those who are mentally ill. Are you going to push initiatives on those fronts?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I actually think that there were bills that came out of committee, out of interim committee, that represent those positions, and I will support them. In fact, I funded both of them in my budget. I included money for the mental health part of those who need treatment, who--as part of that program, and I also included money that would pay for the cost of administering the system to identify those who had been convicted of using a gun in a violent misdemeanor or a felony.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Are those going to be on your priority list, though?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I have one major priority this year. And that's to fund education.

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Governor, we have Lee Austin with Utah Public Radio up in our microwave site in Logan with a question for you. Lee, your question?

LEE AUSTIN, KUSU-FM: Thank you. It was the interesting to see the issue of Internet taxation raised in a recent Republican presidential debate, with I believe Senator Hatch pledging to support a permanent moratorium on taxation. Traditional retailers are supportive of the plan that you outlined, but where else is the support going to come from?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It's unclear to me just what Senator Hatch's position is on this. We haven't ever talked about it. If he's saying he supports the moratorium on access to the Internet, we're in agreement, because I don't think we ought to be taxing the Internet itself. I do, I feel strongly that we ought to have a level playing field. I don't like taxes any more than anyone else, but if we have to have them, we ought to do one thing as a matter of certainty, and that is we ought to treat everybody the same. They ought to be fair. And so I don't know that he's spent a lot of time on this issue, nor do I think that -- He has never talked with me about it, so I really don't know his position.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Governor, the president of the IOC was on Capitol Hill in Washington yesterday trying to sell reform, and it seemed like that congress wasn't buying what he was trying to sell. Are you satisfied with the reforms that have been adopted?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I'm satisfied with the way we have responded to our situation. We have told everything we know about this situation, I think we've fueled reform. I think one of the things that ultimately will come out of the very difficult and painful experience we had was that the Salt Lake 2002 winter Olympics, I think, will be known as the place that any level of Olympic, or at least where a culture of Olympic corruption may have been stopped. It didn't start here, but it will have stopped here. And I think we ought to take some satisfaction, along with our pain and along with the sense of responsibility that we need to bear. Now, the Olympics, they're under plenty of pressure to solve that problem, and I think they'll do it, and if they're not, the world will hold their feet to the fire until they do.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: Do you think Utah will go down in history, though, as the place where it blew up, or that started the cleanup?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I can tell you what I hope. I hope they'll recognize that it didn't start here, but it stopped here.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, can I go back to Internet taxation for a minute? I think Senator Hatch has made his position clear. He said a permanent moratorium on sales tax on transactions. And most of the other presidential candidates on the Republican side have taken that same position. Very strongly opposing taxes, sales tax on Internet sales. Aren't you kind of in touch with the presidential hopefuls, and Governor Bush, who's depending on support from the governors, isn't this a troublesome area for you right now?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, it wouldn't be the first time that I had disagreed with the convention on one side of the party or the other. This is not a political issue to me, this is a policy issue to me. This is -- and it's a big one -- this is about the shape of government. And frankly, I would say those in my party or any other party who say we just ought to give a permanent special privilege to one method of purchasing has not thought this process through very clearly. It may be appealing in a campaign year to stand up and say, "Don't tax the Internet." We're not taxing the Internet. My position is we ought to do nothing but expect people to do what they're now responsible to do. I oppose any new tax on the Internet. I oppose any tax on the Internet itself. I don't like taxes any more than any one of them. But if we're going to have them, if we're going to have to have a tax, they ought to be fair. Now, to me what this is ultimately going to shape to is a question as to whether or not, in the 21st Century, sales tax is even a viable alternative. It may not be. But we've got to figure that out. The system of sales tax, as I see it today, in its current form, is incompatible with the 21st century economy. And if we don't fix it, then some public servant, probably long after I'm out of public service, is going to have to wrestle with this problem. And there's a point in the life of every problem when it's big enough you can see it and small enough that you can still solve it. And I argue that we're at a point right now where this one is small enough that we can solve it. If we don't, ultimately public policy people, a long time after I'm gone, will be saying, "Well, what are we going to do?" If suddenly you get 20 percent of the gross national product being conducted on line, as I believe it can and should be, then what are the alternatives? Someone might say, "Well, I guess we could raise the property tax." I'm against that. Someone could say, "Well, maybe we ought to put more on to income." I'm against raising the income tax. I'd like to see us have a level playing field. I'm for a level playing field. And those who would argue that we ought to carve out a special privilege, I think, are contrary to free trade. Free trade is about level playing fields. It is not about special privilege.

RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS: What's the difference, Governor, between giving special privilege to the Internet and giving special tax breaks or other privileges to businesses, some of which we do right here in Utah?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We do. We do that on occasion. We make a public investment when we do that. And if the public decided that we ought to give a special privilege to those who sell that way, then we would have made a deliberate decision. My problem now is that we're not making a deliberate decision, we're just allowing the system to go forward without fixing the system. And we ought to make a deliberate decision. And I think that, in time, that everyone will come, most people will come to the point of recognizing that a level playing field treats Main Street business, mom and pop businesses, and gives everybody a level playing field. People ought to -- Ronald Reagan, I think, was perhaps one of the most wise on this point. He said taxes ought to be level and equal. It ought not to be the means by which we choose winners and losers. And I believe that.

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Governor, do you think this advisory commission is going to come out with anything concrete when it's all said and done? As I understand it, there needs to be a supermajority of a position one way or the other to have any sort of merit to what the proposal is. Are you confident, with the scope of this discussion, that there's going to be any proposals of merit come out of this commission?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I don't know. There are 19 members, and you have to have two thirds, which means 13. Actually, I think the commission may, whether it does or it doesn't, will have served a very important purpose. That is that debate is now beginning to mature. It's -- we're now starting to have very serious policy debates about, "What kind of tax policy do we want in this country? Do we want to have a level playing field or do we want to create a special privilege for one group?" Is it fair for us to treat retailers one way -- I mean it's like walking into a grocery store, and buying groceries, and finding that there are three or four check stands, but only one of them charges sales tax. Now, none of us would feel like that was a reasonable way to approach taxes. And yet that's what they're proposing. Now, I think in time that nothing's going to happen for five years, three to five years in my judgment. I don't think that we'll see any major change, and that's okay, because it'll take us that long to fix the system, and it'll take us that long to really figure out what we want to do on this. But in time, it needs to be solved.

PAUL FOY, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, what do you think about the fairness of taxing food in grocery stores? It's sure to be an issue that'll come up again in the legislature, Utah being one of the few states that does tax food, taking a higher percentage of income from poor people. Where do you stand on that fairness question?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I would like to see the sales tax removed from food, if we could find a way to pay for it. And it's a fairly significant tax reduction. I would say when we get into reducing general taxes the next time that might be one to look at.

DAN HARRIE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Will you push in the legislature on uniform statewide sales tax rate, which is a move toward imposing a taxation on Internet sales?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I will not in this session and it's unclear to me whether that is, in the long term, the best solution.

BOB BERNICK, DESERET NEWS: You talked about your political future, you're pretty clear you're going to announce pretty soon that you're going to run for another term. Will Olene Walker be your lieutenant governor in the next term?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We've had no discussions to the contrary.

BOB BERNICK, DESERET NEWS : So you anticipate that she will be?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I have no reason to anticipate otherwise. I haven't talked with her about it. Obviously it'll be her decision.

REPORTER: Governor, I'm hearing actually, if I can follow up, that some in the party may be asking you for commitment, if you do run for a third term, to stick through it, and not to leave for a possible cabinet position with any Bush administration. Are you prepared to give that commitment to people in your party?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I don't have any illusion about either my being requested to do that or otherwise. I've not really had any discussions with anyone, other than the fact that I'm in the process of making my decision about whether I will seek a third term. As I indicated, my inclination is to do that, but over the Christmas holidays I'm going to go off with my family, and we're going to have one of those family discussions where everybody gets to have their say, and then I'll make a decision.

BOB BERNICK, DESERET NEWS: Do you think that you would have to make that promise, realistically have to make that promise if you seek another term? If you were to stay?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Again, I'm planning, in terms of my own political decisions, to decide whether or not I want to offer myself as a governor during the next four years. I suspect that'll become a discussion that I'll have to respond to once I've made that decision.

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Governor, we've got less than a minute left. Let me afford you an opportunity here to extend some holiday wishes since we're approaching, as you said, the holiday season to the viewers here in Utah.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Thank you, Scott. I would like to wish all of you a very merry Christmas, and also those who are viewing. This is a remarkably interesting holiday year, because we're approaching a new year, a new decade, a new century, and a new millennium. Things have never been more prosperous in Utah, we have never been more blessed. I hope that through this holiday season we will not just count our own blessings, not only celebrate our own happiness and prosperity, but share with others who may not be as fortunate as we are. And may we all have a very happy holiday Christmas, and a very merry Christmas.

SCOTT THOMPSON, KUED: Governor, happy holidays for you. For KUED, I'm Scott Thompson, this is the Governor's News Conference, good night.

Recorded: December 16, 1999, 10:00 a.m. Eccles Broadcast Center
Broadcast: December 16, 1999, 7:00 p.m. KUED-Channel 7

 

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