February 17, 2000

I'm optimistic we'll that we'll be able to come up with a budget that will make a substantial increase in education funding.

Reporters (in order of appearance):

KEN VERDOIA, KUED
KAT SNOW, KUER
ROD DECKER, KUTV
RAY FRIESS, KALL / K-NEWS
CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX
LEE AUSTIN, KUSU
JUDY FAYHS, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
BOB WARD, STANDARD-EXAMINER

Transcript:

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, thanks for joining us today. The powerful Legislative Executive Appropriation Committee has weighed in with target funding levels for public education and higher education, neither one of which achieves the target levels you've proposed. Although public education, I would imagine, is arguably closer to your figures. How do you assess the level of funding as proposed by the committee?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: All of it's headed the right direction. I'm optimistic we'll that we'll be able to come up with a budget that will make a substantial increase in education funding. What I'm most concerned now about is that we link it to a strong sense of accountability. Investment and accountability. Invest more, expect more -- is what we have driven in terms of a strategy on education. I'm more concerned right now that the level of higher education funding that's being proposed does not, in my judgment, yet meet the needs, but the public education, at least the summary that I have seen, took the total funding to just over 7.4 percent, which would exceed the proposal that I made, and I welcome that.

KAT SNOW, KUER: Have you identified areas of, say, higher education where you are maybe willing to go to bat and try to get some increased funding, or are you standing back still at this point?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We are developing what we refer to as our hot spot list. And it's not just higher education. There are many hot spots, still. And I think we still have a lot of discussion in other areas of the budget. They're going down a path that's very responsible, they first needed to establish the transportation funding. Once they had made decisions on transportation, they were able to go to public education and higher education, and now they're dealing with the balance of state government. The further you go up that chain, the more difficult it becomes, and so we're a ways from being able to have resolved this budget, but I think we're working together cooperatively, and there'll still be disputes, and there'll still be disagreement, and there's still going to be differences of opinion on priorities, but generally speaking I'm pleased with what they have done thus far.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: My count, my rough amateur count is about $28 million bucks for higher education including salary increases. Do you remember what your proposal is?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I proposed a 6.3 percent overall increase in higher education. And we're a ways apart still on higher education.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You're more than a third higher, you're more than 50 percent higher than they are. They're at four percent, and you're at six something.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: We're still a ways apart on higher education.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: How? -- Make a case -- Why should they go an extra 20 million bucks or so for higher education? What's in it for people of Utah?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: First of all, we have under-invested in higher education over the course of the last number of years by diverting funds that have traditionally gone to higher education and public education into roads. I've made the point, I think many times, that we need to begin to move that money back into the areas where it has traditionally been needed. Never has it been needed more as we move into the 21st century and education is now serving -- particularly higher education -- more people who need more education, and they have to get it faster. That is a fundamental change in what prosperous societies will do in the next decade or two. And I'm anxious that our state not be left behind.

RAY FRIESS, KALL/K-NEWS: The leadership indicated yesterday that they feel that they are close to what you proposed, but the way that they're doing it is not the way that you proposed. Are you satisfied with that, as long as you reach the goal? Do you mind how they go about reaching your goal?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I don't view myself as having all wisdom when it comes to education funding. What I do believe passionately is that we need to have additional investment, and it needs to be linked to accountability. We need to raise our expectations of ourselves as a state: not just teachers, not just principals, but as parents, as students, as administrators, the entire chain of accountability needs to be focused on measuring what our children are learning, and whether it's enough, and whether it's fast enough. And so yes, I'm prepared to accept alternative approaches to this, but I do believe substantial investment and accountability, those are the two keys.

RAY FRIESS, KALL/K-NEWS: So cutting back on capital but still holding the course on roads you'd be satisfied with?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well the capital budget that they are proposing is quite consistent with the one that I proposed, which was to forego a lot of additional capital investment for a year in order to get our feet underneath us in terms of education funding. I have said that if they choose to bond, then there are some priorities that I believe ought to be handled first. But we're not a long ways apart on capital. Our biggest concern is going to be what they're doing with other budgets in order to meet the education goals which they have indicated we share.

KAT SNOW, KUER: Can you give us another preview of the hot spot list? Beyond higher education, what else do you know now is going to be on it?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, any area where we have ongoing programs that are vital, such as Medicaid, that's a federal mandate, we have no choice but to meet that need. And if Medicaid, for example, were substantially underfunded, that would qualify on the hot spot list. There are many. it's a -- in many cases, it's a large list with a lot of small items with one or two large items. And we're just assembling that now and I'm not able to go through and reconcile it for you today. But it's an ongoing process. We continue to do that all the way up to the time that the budget passes.

KAT SNOW, KUER: How about corrections officer salaries? Is that going to be on there? Is that something you're going to fight for this time around?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It was, part of my budget was to enhance correctional salaries, and we'll continue to fight for my budget, which would include correctional salaries.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: Governor, as you found out the other day at the Hinkley Institute, the so-called gay adoption bills are very controversial. I'm curious, in your own personal opinion, whether you think homosexuality is a sin.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Chris, I don't think that's the issue, here. I don't think that's the reason that this is controversial. The issue is whether or not we ought to be providing for a traditional family atmosphere for children who are at risk. And my own view is that children who are in crisis are better served -- and it's not just my own opinion -- this is a matter of scientific research. And the --I have to say that there are parts of this, as difficult as it is, where the logic seems to be stretched to me. But on balance, as a whole, I think it's a very good policy to put children into traditional families.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: Having heard your answer. Let me, if I could, repeat my question. Do you personally think homosexuality is a sin?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, let me repeat my answer. I don't think that's the issue here, and I don't think that is the nature of the issue that we're debating in the legislature.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: Is my question not valid, though?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It could be, but it's not one I intend to get into here, because I don't think it has any relevance with respect to this issue or any others. It's a curious lunch discussion that I'm sure you'd like to have, and I'm sure it would inflame a lot of discussion, and I know that that's often the goal of these kinds of things. But it's not something I see at this point as being relative to the issue on abortion -- or rather -- on adoption.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: A deal was struck up there in the last couple of days between representatives and the sponsors to enable some adoptions where there was a tie, a pre-existing tie. For example, there's a couple of lesbians where one woman has had artificial insemination and the other woman wishes to adopt the child, and they would allow it in those cases. That deal is in the process of falling through. Are you going to get into the details of this, and if so, do you know where you stand with respect to adoptions where there's some previous tie between the otherwise ineligible couple and the kid who's up for adoption?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It's become clear that there is a difference in -- when we're establishing guardianship as opposed to pure adoption. And I'm comfortable with delineating on that part.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Okay, but this isn't guardianship. In this lesbian case, the one -- the one woman is going to earn the living, and if she can't adopt, the kid can't use her health insurance. So it's -- I mean it's a matter of some practical import to them, and this is a pre-existing lesbian couple who wished to have a kid. And I guess the kid's going to stay with the natural mom, no matter what the legislature does. And this was to cover those sorts of things. Are you going to get into this, or are you just going to let them work it out and --

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: You're talking about the legislature?

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Yeah, just let the legislature work it out.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: You see these issues are complicated enough, if they could work it out I'd welcome their solution.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Okay, but are you going to get into it?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: They will send me a bill, I suspect, and I will evaluate whether I think it is fair or whether it's not. I can't resolve all of these things. These are very difficult issues that I didn't either originate or feel like I've got the solution to all of them. There's a lot of issues with relationships to people's intimate relationships, their family relationships, society's view of them. I do believe very strongly that the word "marriage" is about children, and that we ought to protect in every way our traditional view of what a marriage is. Now, do I pretend that there will not be children who will be born into circumstances outside of marriage? No, I know that will be the case, and we'll have to sort through as best we can. But I don't think we ought to be creating social policy that would encourage the -- either adoption of or the bearing of children outside a marriage.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Right now we're going to switch our attention now, unfortunately, because we have to accommodate our reporters in different locations, switch our attention to Logan and a question from Lee Austin of KUSU. Lee?

LEE AUSTIN, KUSU: Thank you very much. I'd like to return to this question of the budget as currently proposed being much more generous to public education than higher education.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Lee, are you interested to know whether I think it's a sin or not? Or are you just- -

LEE AUSTIN, KUSU: No.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Okay.

No, the higher education funding question, as it's presently proposed, I've heard faculty members express frustration they feel their case isn't presented as persuasively as other groups like the public school teachers. As a former regent, and governor, do you think that is the case? How could they do a better job?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Are you speaking of the, the -- who doing a better job, Lee? I'm not following your question.

LEE AUSTIN, KUSU: The higher education community in presenting their issues.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Well, I believe we're moving into a very different environment in higher education. The mission of higher education is expanding. It used to be that we thought of education as a place where traditional high school graduates, people entering the work force, would go to be either trained or to gain an expansive amount of knowledge that could make them better citizens. All of that's still true, but we're also now saying that all of us are becoming students again and again. So the mission is changing, and I believe that calls for us to begin to define differently victory. It isn't academic credits, it's what people are learning. Which calls for us to come up with a new set of measures on how we -- on how we evaluate our success.

I would like to see higher education adopt a series of measures that would be relevant to the next century. I mentioned three in my state of the state. One would be to accelerate the velocity at which people are able to gain knowledge. Higher education develops a kind of institutional pace about it. And I would like to see it accelerated, because that's what's happening in the rest of the world.

Secondly, there are parts of our state that don't have access. I've proposed that we have a 10 percent increase in access in the twelve counties in our state that are the lowest. I think that's a way that they could do a better job and tell their story better.

Third, I think that there are areas and places where graduates are needed and we're not producing them: engineering, computer science. In the last ten years we've had a reduction of, well, from 10.7 percent of the degrees that were computer science and engineering, down to about 7.3 percent. That's a dramatic reduction in a period when the entire economy is being driven by computer science and by technology.

So those, that's three ways in which I believe higher education could improve, and in ways that I believe they could make their case more strongly. I believe that ultimately the legislature wants some level of accountability, and higher education, through their master planning, has now proposed a set of measures, and if they meet them I think there'll be quite a willingness on the part of the legislature to fund them.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Some of your other programs are getting beat up pretty badly, specifically health. There's a cut in health, they'll have to cut people the way the budget is now. Though I think Medicaid, that you mentioned, is funded at the level that the analysts wanted it. The child welfare services, you'd proposed $500,000 to help them over their current budget crunch. That isn't in there now, and a number of people say Utah's going to get sued again over that because there is a -- there is in process now, a lowering of services to all kids in the system across the board. Would you talk about these, how worrisome are they?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Let me deal with the Division of Child and Family Services and the allegation that there's a lowering of services. That's just not the case. We're living within the budget that the legislature set last time. They have expended parts of their budget faster than they should have, but every agency of government has a budget, and I might add that the Division of Child and Family Services has a darn nice one. We have increased it well over $190 million in the last few years. Do I think we could get sued? Well, certainly history has demonstrated that we could, and probably will at one time or another over something. But I feel very good about the progress that we're making. Now, there are other areas of human services that are on my hot spot list because they're not meeting the needs, and that'll be part of what we end up fighting over the next two weeks.

RAY FRIESS, KALL/K-NEWS: Governor the leadership indicated yesterday talking about the budget, that the tobacco money is still all on the table. From your -- have you had any discussions with them? Are they giving you any ideas or indications where their, what their thinking is regarding that pot that's still undivided?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: They're actually leaving that to last in their process, and I think that's wise. There are lots of different proposals on the table. One I have made is that we use major parts of for the purpose of expanding drug courts throughout the state. Drug courts work -- 90 percent of the people who go to, in fact 95 percent of the people who go to drug court never offend again. There's not a part of the criminal justice system that has that kind of success rate. There are those who would like to use part of it to fund the Children's Health Insurance Program, and that would be acceptable to me. But I think that there may be other competing uses as well. The Huntsman Cancer Institute is an attractive proposal. Obviously some of it needs to go tobacco cessation and reduction. It'll be -- and then there's a big question right now as to how much money we'll actually have. So I think that's going to be resolved dead last.

JUDY FAYHS, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, you are on the American Legacy Foundation board, and one of the questions for that board for Utah is whether Utah will be willing to administer this tobacco use survey. And based on a bill -- action on a bill a couple of days ago -- that won't happen in Utah. How are you going to resolve that? How is Utah going to get that $1.7 billion?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Actually, I was successful in getting the foundation to not hold that as stringent a requirement for applying. In our last board meeting that requirement was altered. Ultimately we need to resolve this. I believe that we can pattern a test, or rather a study, that will not infringe on anybody's rights, and it would be very helpful for parents, I think, generally, to know the trends on tobacco. I don't think we should make it too expansive in terms of the other subjects, but I would have supported the ability to survey students in that area. But in terms of the immediate problem, I've been able to resolve that with the foundation.

CHRIS VANOCUR, KTVX: Governor, several states most, notably Illinois, have expressed concern recently over carrying out death penalty sentences. Any plans here in Utah to review either the procedure or the people actually on death row?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I think that is a -- really -- a worry that a lot of people, a lot of states are having. I have actually reviewed in my mind, and the times when we have had capital crimes here that have been punished during my administration, and I'm confident that that was not an issue here. Most of the suits that go forward -- rather, most of the executions that take place in the state have been in the courts for 17, 18, 19 years, and typically the issue isn't whether the crime was committed by the person, but procedural issues and so forth. Now, any time a person is -- where new technology is available -- we ought to employ it. And we ought to employ it where possible retroactively to see if mistakes have been made. And if it demonstrates that juries were fallible in their conclusion, then people ought to have a new trial.

BOB WARD, STANDARD-EXAMINER: Governor, with regard to the Legacy Foundation, again, apparently a decision was recently made to pull two tough tobacco, anti-tobacco ads from the air waves. Can you, as a board member, speak to why that decision was made? I understood it had something to do with Phillip Morris and the fact that they didn't like the ad.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: It really had a lot to do with the nature of the settlement agreement. There were provisions that defined certain limitations on ads that would be focused in a harsher, what they deemed to be unfair way. I viewed the ads, I supported them, I'd still like to see them run. They're powerful, direct ads that go right at the problem. They basically use the theme that say tobacco is one of the only products you can think of that ultimately ends up in the death of one-third of the people who use it. Now, that's a fact. And it may not be one that tobacco companies like, but it's true. And I thought it was very persuasive and effective advertising. The decision to pull it, I think, is really a temporary one while they evaluate the long-term impact with respect to the settlement agreement.

RAY FRIESS, KALL/K-NEWS: Any concern about Utah's economy, Governor? The figures released yesterday show that even though we have almost $26 million in new money that wasn't expected, we were down on sales tax and business franchise tax, the ongoing funds, and Allen Greenspan indicating to congress today that we can look forward to more interest rate hikes. Any alarm bells starting to ring in your mind?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: No new ones. I have a long-term concern that we're like a jet softly descending to another, lower level than we have been the last four or five years, but the level we were at wasn't sustainable. Our economy is very healthy right now. One thing I would point out is that there's quite a bit of suspicion on the part of the tax commission that the reduction in sales tax, particularly in December, was the result of people shifting from retail sales to electronic commerce sales, where sales taxes are not collected.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Governor, there's talk on the hill that this budget is going to pave the way for a tax increase next year. That we're, as you point, the economy may not have the kind of growth that we've had in some past years, and therefore we may not have the tax revenue growth. That the ongoing revenues are down a little bit in the latest revenue estimates, and people say that we're spending a lot of money and you're going to have to suggest a tax increase next year. You've made it very clear you won't have one this year. Would you talk about, are we paving the way for a tax increase in the future?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: The biggest trap that I believe a legislative body can create is spending a lot of one-time money to cover ongoing obligations. I remember in the mid '80s when they had a big tax increase. That was really a reflection of spending that had occurred before, that they just never came to grips with, where they spent one-time money on ongoing obligations. That's one of the disputes we'll have as we get to the end. I do not intend to support a budget that has a disproportionate amount of one-time money using, paying ongoing expenses.

Now, in every budget when they get to the end, they'll force it a little bit and spend some one-time money on ongoing. But if you get into the area where you're spending large sums of money, I would object to that. Because that ultimately, the combination of doing that, having an economy that turns down, having a lot of our retail sales shifting from traditional retail into internet, where people are not required to collect, that's a big problem. All those in combination, ultimately there's going to be a crash out there in front of you, and we ought to be very vigilant to try and prevent all those things so we don't have to face that at some point.

JUDY FAYHS, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Does that mean more bonding?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Pardon?

JUDY FAYHS, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Does that mean more borrowing?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: Does what mean more borrowing?

JUDY FAYHS, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Does the fact that you have to look at the long term mean that you need to look at long-term borrowing?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I think we ought to be stretching out the length of time that we borrow. We have 15-year bonds, as you know, on our transportation, and we've been prepaying them up to seven years. And I would like to see us use a ten year. That's not necessarily more money, but it is stretching it out and making more available money for higher education and public education.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Your critics say that that's like using one-time money for ongoing expenditures. The money that will be saved this year for stretching out the bonds will go into ongoing expenditures, and that money will be replaced by borrowing for a longer period of time.

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: There's a big, big difference in borrowing to build 40-year or 50-year highways, and borrowing in order to enable funding on ongoing programs. That's like borrowing for a mortgage as opposed to borrowing to pay your food budget. We will not borrow to pay our food budget, but we really should borrow to pay for highways.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Are you -- have you thought about a tax increase next year or the year after? Do you think we're going to have one?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I would have very, very serious doubts about that, unless there are things that occur that aren't right now. Now, as I've said publicly before, periodically states will always have to revisit their gasoline tax on the basis of how it is structured. But there will not be this year any increase in the gas tax.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, we have just about 30 seconds left in our allotted time. A year or so ago there was great anticipation about a super-primary involving Utah, elevating the state's perspective, if you will, in the presidential selection process. Now we have it coming up in March, there's a dull thud associated with it, not the great interest. How are you going to build interest towards that activity?

GOVERNOR LEAVITT: I'm going to be spending a lot of time next week going through communities of the state, I'm going to ask all the members of the media and the editorial pages and the owners of the stations and newspapers to engage in civic dialogue -- civic journalism. This is an opportunity for our state to participate in a very important franchise we have.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: And we are out of time for this edition of the governor's monthly news conference join us on line at www.uen.org for a transcript of this and every news conference here on KUED. Good evening.

Recorded: February 17, 2000, 10:00 a.m. Eccles Broadcast Center
Broadcast: January 17, 2000, 7:00 p.m. KUED-Channel 7; and 11:00 p.m. on KULC-Channel 9

 

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